Julian Assange just made matters worse

[Slammr (imported)]

Considering how the government is treating Bradley Manning, the soldier accused of giving Assange the information, I don't blame Assange for being paranoid. As a foreign national, the USA could send him to Gitmo, where they could hold him for years without a trial, as they are holding others. Gitmo is a national shame, and as long as we deny justice to others, how can we, as citizens, expect it for ourselves? They are continually trying to pass laws allowing detainment of people without due process.

I don't know if Assange is guilty of the sexual assault, but I suspect he would go to Sweden to answer the charges, if he were guaranteed he wouldn't be turned over to the USA.

I think the information leaked by him did less harm that the pictures taken at Abu Ghraib of prisoners being maltreated by American soldiers or by the Qur'an burning Florida pastor, Terry Jones. We say the Constitution grants Jones the right to burn the Qur'an, even though it resulted in many killed and a black eye for the USA. I don't know of anyone killed as a result of the information released by Assange. If anything, it revealed shady dealings by our State Department and made them change their ways, which was probably a good thing. I will side with Moi on this one - as difficult as it is for me to do that - I see Assange having less liability for the release of this information than Ellsberg had. Ellsberg took the files in his case, Assange didn't. He just passed them on to the world.

The USA should unequivocally state that it will not charge or prosecute Assange for the release of the information. If it would, this would no longer be a story, and no country would shield him in its embassy.

When it comes to siding with the government - any government - or with the whistle blower, I'll generally side with the whistle blower.

[Elizabeth (imported)]

Actually, Assange is NOT a spy. He did not illegally gain the information. He did not uncover the information. He merely published what he was given. Such acts are usually protected in the USA under the Freedom of the Press act.

The Government can and does put limits on what the press can publish, HOWEVER, they cannot extend those limits to people in other countries. The USA can tell its own citizens what to publish, but not the citizens of other countries.

Assange will likely NEVER see the inside of a US prison, or benefit from the US justice system. If remanded to the USA, he will likely be labeled as a terrorist, and shipped to a place like Guantanamo Prison. He will be held WITHOUT trial, without any legal appeal, and will never see justice.

Assange has said many times, that he is willing to face justice provided the USA is actually willing to bring charges. The USA cannot do that, because he broke no laws the USA can enforce. The USA wants to treat him as an enemy combatant, and that is something that operates OUTSIDE of the law.

If you are saying that foreign citizens are not subject to US espionage laws, that is just not true. He is not free to publish anything that is secret and obtained illegally. You are thinking of the precedent set with the "Pentagon Papers". However, it is alleged that he was part of the crime of obtaining the classified material. Soliciting someone to commit treason and give up classified material is a crime. I for one hope he is punished severely. He is a cocky arrogant man who thinks that countries are not allowed to have secrets. It's not his job to decide what is secret and what is not. And as far as the Freedom of the Press act, I can find nothing that would permit what he did in that law. I will need you to show it to me.

Elizabeth

[moi621 (imported)]

Three of us can agree

"something is NOT correct"

about the manner of international persecution of

Julian Assange and similar persons.

Danial Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers was just a review of

American involvement in S.E. Asia. No secrets.

This is deja vu all over again on an international scale like some

action/drama TV series of

Black-Ops coming down on the bewildered central character.

Secrets should be more then embarrassments. They should be threatening to the National Security.

Some functionary labeling something as secret, Don't Make It Secret in an American society.

Moi

Free Assange, Gabriele, Manning, Pollard and the heroes of conscience.

BTW, YOU know the prisoners at Gitmo have been held for longer then the Nazi POW's from Stalingrad.

Without due process! Creeping Stateism! Really. On our economy. On our rights.

[Cainanite (imported)]

If you are saying that foreign citizens are not subject to US espionage laws, that is just not true. He is not free to publish anything that is secret and obtained illegally. You are thinking of the precedent set with the "Pentagon Papers". However, it is alleged that he was part of the crime of obtaining the classified material. Soliciting someone to commit treason and give up classified material is a crime. I for one hope he is punished severely. He is a cocky arrogant man who thinks that countries are not allowed to have secrets. It's not his job to decide what is secret and what is not. And as far as the Freedom of the Press act, I can find nothing that would permit what he did in that law. I will need you to show it to me.

Elizabeth

Then, all the USA needs to do to make this go away, is file charges against Assange. If what he did was a crime, and they file charges, no embassy in the world would continue to protect Assange. Assange himself has promised to turn himself over if charges are laid.

This seems like a no-brainer to me. Just charge the man, and be done with it. However, if you do, you need to give the man his day in court.

[humlind1 (imported)]

Just to clarefy a few things.

1: Contry`s. do not nowmaly. send there papers of a upcomming trail. To a different contry.(Sweeden, or for that mater, any scandinavian) contried, do not send out convicted or others to contries that have a death penalty as a part of there law.

2: Tru history i know few, that have been send to usa, from this contries. Even if they are allied with USA.

One example is Mulha krekar, A terorist, as we all know. that have been in norway for years. because we cant send him out of norway. That is because We know what he have done. And it is ageins the law od Norway/sweeden/denmark and iceland. To give death penalties. regardless, of what they desirve.

There are not a single, changes that Julian Assange had been send to USA, afther a trial. He can go there of free will. But will never be Send from sweeden.

I had gladly done it. because i feel what he did is so wrong. But it is no presidence, to do so.

Krekar is under 24 hours survailance. He is at the time in prison in Norway. Afther threatening several politicians on there life.

The majorety of the people whant him out.

But tru Norwegian law. We cant force him out, To a land he risk being trailed and send to his death. And we cant send him to a contry he isnt from, or that have asked for him. to trail his actions.

its a mess.

But fact is, Assange will never have been,send out of sweeden. if he risked beeing killed. But he had been in court and had a changes to prove his inocence or guilt.

Running away, for me prove, that he did it. and just try to avoid the penalty he desirve.

[Cainanite (imported)]

Just to clarefy a few things.

1: Contry`s. do not nowmaly. send there papers of a upcomming trail. To a different contry.(Sweeden, or for that mater, any scandinavian) contried, do not send out convicted or others to contries that have a death penalty as a part of there law.

2: Tru history i know few, that have been send to usa, from this contries. Even if they are allied with USA.

One example is Mulha krekar, A terorist, as we all know. that have been in norway for years. because we cant send him out of norway. That is because We know what he have done. And it is ageins the law od Norway/sweeden/denmark and iceland. To give death penalties. regardless, of what they desirve.

There are not a single, changes that Julian Assange had been send to USA, afther a trial. He can go there of free will. But will never be Send from sweeden.

I had gladly done it. because i feel what he did is so wrong. But it is no presidence, to do so.

Krekar is under 24 hours survailance. He is at the time in prison in Norway. Afther threatening several politicians on there life.

The majorety of the people whant him out.

But tru Norwegian law. We cant force him out, To a land he risk being trailed and send to his death. And we cant send him to a contry he isnt from, or that have asked for him. to trail his actions.

its a mess.

But fact is, Assange will never have been,send out of sweeden. if he risked beeing killed. But he had been in court and had a changes to prove his inocence or guilt.

Running away, for me prove, that he did it. and just try to avoid the penalty he desirve.

Then why doesn't Sweden just give him the assurance that he won't be deported to the USA if he could be facing the death penalty? Sounds easy enough. It is all he has asked for. Then Assange does not need to worry he will be killed by the USA.

I really don't like Assange. I agree that he is not an honorable person. I just want to see justice done, not revenge. So far, all the countries involved seem to want revenge, not justice.

[humlind1 (imported)]

Cainanite.

Easy. No contries in the western world, will ever negotiate with a person, that breake national law.

history, have showen that for senturies. That Assange ask for Garanti, from a contry, just show his, Lack of insight.

It is easy to see why he do this. He whant to be free, he whant to be surten that he isnt departured to USA.

But if USA, ask for him. When he is freed or sentenced in sweeden.

And USA, can garanti Sweeden, that he will, not be sentenced to death, afther a trail, Sweeden had then given him to use, for trying his case.

USA are then tru the nato pack, and the cowork with us, Obligated to insurten Assanges safty. That is the essence of it.

But he may end up life time in prison, If court in USA find him guilty. Or if he is plased under the terorist side of the law,

But regardless, he will not risk a death panelty.

So sweeden can`t garanti that he isnt delivered to USA, But can garanti hi will not be sentenced to death.

Sweeden Is not debating with a single person. About how they run there cort system

Or being dictated by 1 person on how to act.

But the fact remain the same regardless!

The catch here is, death panelty. if that is out of the equation, there is no reason to not but him on trail.

[Riverwind (imported)]

To our Canadian friends, I believe we have expressed our opinion that this guy is a slim ball, but I don't think any of us would not want him to get his day in court, which he seems to feel he is above. BTW the court in question is not in the USA.

River

[Cainanite (imported)]

As I said before, the easiest solution to have this all resolved, is simply to lay charges. If that is done, then Assange would lose the protection of the embassy, and he would be forced to face his accusers.

Courts can also try people in absentia. There is nothing stopping things from progressing. What is the hold up? Just charge him with a crime already. Be done with it.

[kristoff]

The US has previously guaranteed no death penalty in an extradition case. But they can not provide any guarantees unless there are charges to attach the guarantee to; that is the way it works here.