Effects of a single ethanol injection into the vas deferens

[Paolo]

I wonder if this stuff cooks out of the meat, or if we'll end up with a whole generation of 'inoculated' males who like to eat pork?

[mariemm2 (imported)]

So immuncastration only needs one injection for effective castration?

Thats interesting

[fhunter]

So immuncastration only needs one injection for effective castration?

Thats interesting

The article mentioned two injections a month apart.

But it also mentioned, that in case of accidental injection, one injection sometimes would be enough. (If I remember correctly, I may be wrong)

[ZeuterMe (imported)]

I wonder if this stuff cooks out of the meat, or if we'll end up with a whole generation of 'inoculated' males who like to eat pork?

It cooks out of meat. Vaccines consist of a foreign protein - possibly coupled to a larger, stabilizing protein - mixed with something called an adjuvent, often an inorganic salt (God, was it calcium chloride used in the measles vaccine? That would be amusing, but all my textbooks are six hours away right now so I can't be sure.) intended to cause inflammation. Inflammation is a side effect of recruiting immune system cells to the site, where phagocytes (literally, "eating cells") do their thing and eat the foreign protein, and send samples to antibody-producing cells, which essentially fill your bloodstream with 'wanted posters' that stick to the target and say to phagocytes "Eat me!" and signal other nasty proteins (the "complement cascade") to punch holes in the targeted cells.

What do all these have in common? They're all protein, just like the meat, and as long as you're cooking your pork to safe temperatures, all of them will be denatured and non-functional except the calcium chloride. On the other hand, the massive majority of that should have been peed out long ago.

Science1!

If single-injection immunocastration is desirable, I would recommend either the use of a DNA vaccine to continuously introduce Leydig cell proteins to the bloodstream for a month or three, essentially co-opting some muscle* cells to produce the second (and third…) dose of the vaccine, or a time-release formulation of the drug using micelles or micro-beads.

*(Muscle cells, in the case of most injected vaccines. If you can get fat cells to produce the protein in question, you can use a shorter and finer needle, but should probably expect a slower-acting vaccine.)

Injections could perhaps be eliminated altogether if your vaccine could be delivered in pill form; the outer capsule protects the active bits against stomach acid, the inner beads protect the drug against the strong alkaline of the upper small intestine, and the drug consists of proteins to be taken up by the phagocytes of the Peyer's patches, which are found in the ileum (the last segment of the small intestine). After five minutes of research, I'd recommend flagellin as the adjuvent, which is a bacterial protein recognized by the Peyer's patches, coupled to the testicular proteins. This could enable the creation of a castration pill.

Alternately, the techniques applied by creating the FluMist vaccine could be applied to a vaccine not containing a live virus, but I'm not sure how well it would work.

[YodaNell (imported)]

...

I think it was the testicular necrosis which led me to believe that this could mean castration in some cases...

Surely one is castrated after testicle necrosis...yes? :-\

[Neutered (imported)]

This could enable the creation of a castration pill.

Wow, I wonder how many pissed off girl(or boy) friends would like that pill to be available so they could punish their boyfriends. It's already happened with the abortion pill.

[ZeuterMe (imported)]

Science: All about the "could," not about the "should."

To be perfectly honest, I was wondering about that last night. :p

Now I'm wondering if you'd be able to achieve the same effect with an anti-ovary vaccine - since women are born with their entire egg supply racked up and ready to go, the immune system dynamics may be significantly different than men, where the first sperm cell is formed long after the immune system is trained up, and therefore the two have to be kept segregated. If not, female sterilization could be achieved by targeting GnRH, the approach used in the Gonex immunosterilization vaccine, but I'm not sure if it'd trigger tissue ablation or hormonal changes, or just stop them from releasing eggs.

[jcat (imported)]

There are lots of variables in this. Lots of questions.

As an insatiable curiosity filled cat and somewhat obsessive nature I have done some injections and have documented my progress: http://forums.eunuch.org/showthread.php ... injections So I want go over that here.

The effiacy of this cannot be determined from my experiment because I have done so much damage to the testicle already. But I know this in so far as it is my experience:

1. It barely hurt, I was told that this sort of injection to the vas would be unbearable.

2. The testicle swelled as did the cord.

3. The testicle swelling is going down, the cord remains hard and swollen tapering down from the injection site

4. The cord is rigid now.

I think that just as fluid flows from the epididymus up the cord so does liquid flow down in the tubes, the difference is that there is a route and the mixture of alcohol and calcium chloride enable it to be squeezed down and maximise the damage.

Certainly the Persemus foundation have introduced sterility by injecting the epididymus and destroying sperm storage.

My thinking is that if you tourniquet the cords and inject thus would prevent upward travel and under pressure the fluid could be pushed to effect maximum damage. The research shows that there is testicular atrophy which would, I think indicate damage.

The problem with injecting the testicle is it is a random firing of liquid within the testicle and has varying degrees of success based on the number of hit and miss injections. Whereas, If I am right you are destroying the tubular structure which definitely cause serialization and may destroy the T production or severely damage it.

What is needed are some virgin balls to first try a single careful shot and see what the hormone levels are.

Beyond this it is all guess work.

I have been very surprised that the pain was so little in my cord, but this is just me and others may experience a lot more pain.

There have been some very brave adventures in the alcohol/Calcium Chloride injection threads, this may present a refinement of the technique and at least require 1 shot to the vas and 1 to the testicle at the lower pole area.

I say this because after substantial damage to my right testicle I injected 2 or 2,5 cc of alcohol and calcium chloride near the epididimus and it penetrated the epididymus and cord, there was nowhere for the liquid to go other than up and I may have been lucky yo hit a tube. The long term effect of this weak calcium chloride injection has been a collapse of the epididymus and the lower part of the cord which just feels flat and deflated.

I think there is something in this. Unfortunately I cannot do anymore to advance this.

This is interesting too:

http://www.parsemusfoundation.org/hormo ... ilization/