nvrgag's introduction

[nvrgag44 (imported)]

Hello everyone, I'm a brand new member, age 67 and this is my first post.

I've read the rules about posting and hope my following brief history is acceptable.

Like many others, I've fantasized about castration for years but it always remained that, an erotic fantasy. I'm happily bi and have been since jr. high, enjoying both sexes equally at most every opportunity. I had radiation for prostate cancer 6 years ago. It left me impotent and unable to ejaculate but I still have remnants of a libido and can still experience enjoyable orgasms. I'm married over 40 years to a good woman but sex between us is just a memory. Over the last few years my preferences have changed and I find myself now sexually attracted to men only. I still enjoy looking at attractive women but no longer have any interest in sexual activity with them. Impotency may be a contributing factor, who knows? Does that make me gay? I don't know, I don't care.

I met a eunuch on another forum about two years ago and we have become "friends". He was castrated by a urolgist several years ago. We've discussed his journey to castration and how it has affected his life at length. It's a fascinating story.

I had some routine blood work done by my primary care doctor last fall and asked him to check my testosterone level. It was 134. I gave it some thought and realized low T may be the cause of physical changes I've noticed in myself but just attributed to the aging process. I didn't like the loss of muscle tone and energy level but I really liked the way I seem to "roll with the flow" now and don't let things bother me the way they used to. The biggest and most enjoyable changes were softer, smoother feeling skin on my hips, butt and pelvic area and the quite noticeable reduction of body hair. I no longer had any hair at all on my arms, legs, hips and most of my back. Chest, arm pit and pubic hair became sparse and thin. I like it so well that I now keep my entire body completely shaved including the buzz cut on my head. It's not hard to maintain, there's not much there anymore. Are these changes due to low T? I have no idea.

Anyway, I recently went to a urologist to discuss my low T. He prescribed Androgel and told me to come back in two months. I had the prescription filled and was all gung ho to try it. Then I started having second thoughts. I like the way I am now. I like my more relaxed personality and my appearance better than before. I don't want my formally aggressive nature and body hair back.. My reduced sex drive is satisfactory. I've grown to understand all this a little better from knowing my eunuch friend but have so much to learn. He uses Androgel too. He regulates his own T level himself by how he feels. He likes his around 100/110 so why am I complaining about 134? Maybe I'd be happier if it were even lower. For the first time I find myself actually disliking testosterone and having thoughts about castration as a possible option down the road sometime, no longer just a fantasy. I would only consider a hospital setting with a real doctor and would try chemicals first to reduce my T even further so I'd get an idea what it would be like to be castrated. Would I ever go through with it? I don't know.

I've had the Androgel for almost a week now but haven't tried it yet. I'm almost afraid to. In the end I probably will give it a try and see what happens.

That's where all of you come in. The learned members here know volumes more about all this than I do.Will the effects of higher T reverse themselves if I stop the Androgell? Did your thought process begin like mine when you first started thinking about lowering your T levels and/or being castrated? What do you think about where my head is at right now? Thanks

[Paolo]

Welcome to the zoo.

[jako9999 (imported)]

Hi and welcome.

If you start to use any replacment then you T will increase and you will start to return to how you were, im still trying things and different levels but I use a very low dose of Testim gel its a pain to use but im in cotrol. I get my morning rise most of the time but after that I have to work at it to get anything else, but my life just feels so much better im not being driven any more I love being a Eunuch, you must remember though if you are castrated you will need other meds to keep your body in good shape like calcium, vitamin B and I get loads of hot flushes.

This is a great site and comunity you will get lots of help from one and all.

[nvrgag44 (imported)]

Thanks for your input, Jako. That's the kind of advise I want to hear, from guys who have been there. After I was diagnosed with prostate cancer I was put on Lupron as part of my treatment. At the time I didn't even know what Lupron was or why they were giving it to me. If it helped cure my cancer, how bad can it be? I didn't notice anything at first but as time went by I totally lost my libido, became ornery and moody, experienced hot flashes and began losing interest in the world around me, including my business. I even got rid of all my porn including my favorites, a collection of Bel Ami videos starring those gorgeous Czech guys. The radiation was done in less than eight weeks, my PSA dropped to .5 but the Lupron injections continued for a year and a half until I refused to take any more. I have no idea what my testosterone level was while I was on Lupron but I don't want to be that miserable ever again. My libido slowly returned at a reduced level that I'm comfortable with, the hot flashes ceased and my mood and interest in life brightened. My PSA remains at .5.

I decided to try the Androgel but haven't started it yet. I keep saying to myself, "tomorrow". The stuff is damned expensive, even with insurance helping out so I'll give it a try. I see the urologist in about seven weeks for a PSA and testosterone level check. I'll stop the stuff immediately if I notice any unfavorable reactions.

[baldwin92 (imported)]

i just googled Lupron, that's some scary stuff. i wouldn't want it .

[nvrgag44 (imported)]

I've decided against using TRT. My primary doc was adamently against it. I've been seeing him for years and trust his judgement. He reminded me about the possible side effects like higher blood pressure which I'm already on medication for and the possibility of higher PSA levels among other things. He's also aware that I enjoy life the way it is now. A less agressive and more relaxed me, weakened but satisfactory libido, less body hair etc. The only part of me he's not aware of is my preference for men over women as sex partners but that has nothing to do with T levels.

[janekane (imported)]

Although I have been aware of the Eunuch Archive for many years, I did not become an Archive member until after my 72nd birthday. Some of us bloom early, others late, and others somewhere in between.

Being a Registered Professional Engineer with B.S. and PH.D. degrees in bioengineering (that is not "bragging," but merely a way to let folks know that I have studied human biology in formidable depth and detail, which is essewntial for me to keep my P.E. license), I am willing to share some thoughts...

While others may have a differing view, I tend to regard being alive, if being alive is sufficiently a decent experience, preferable to having died from terminal cancer. My dad and brother, along with their doctors, made choices very different than the ones I made. They were both dead from cancer at ages considerably younger than I am. My sense of TRT and having a prostate cancer history is that getting TRT might be sadly like playing Russian roulette. I am guessing that your primary doc is aware of that.

As for sex partner preference changes with lowered T, low T levels may, or may not, be a very significant factor.

From time to time, duinrg my life, I have talked with people who were puzzled as to why they had done some things. My understanding of why people can be puzzled is based on my understanding of biology. A considerable portion of the unconscious aspect of people's choices is related to chemical messages (like pheromones) that can produce inter-personal communication that can overwhelm conscious thought in the form of words.

Human biology results in profound diversity, and such diversity includes many aspects of human sexuality. People, through social interaction, have constructed mental models of human sexuality which are commonly very strongly grounded in a person's local culture. Actual human biology is immensely more complex than any practical mental model of human biology that I have ever come across, except for one model.

The one mental model of human biology that makes sense to me is based on recognizing that the mental model of something cannot be the something being mentally modeled. While fully conscious choices may be reasonably understandable in conscious thinking, pheromone-based choices may completely elude ordinary consciousness.

Pheromone receptors may be affected by hormones, such that, with typical adult T levels, pheromone receptors which welcome heterosexual partnering may tend to shut down and pheromone receptors which welcome homosexual partnering may become active. Or not, depending in part on a particular person's total biological situation.

For many years, the DNA in cell nuclei was thought to considt of genes and "junk DNA" between the genes. The DNA between the genes was deemed "junk" because it did not produce gene products.

Biologists, bioengineers, and everyone else, have a tendency to learn new "things." At least some of the DNA that is not genes has been observed to help regulate gene activation and de-activation, and is anything but "junk."

Choices about cancer and surgery and other forms of choice may profoundly affect the path a person's life takes.

For myself, I find life a much better experience when I affirm the path my life is taking than when I allow other people attempt to teach me to deny the path my life is taking.

[nullorchis (imported)]

My experience with Androgel. Having very low T is preferable to what nature forced upon me, which was basically uncontrollable and caused me nothing but grief.

However, having "just enough" T to ward off the negative side effects of very low T I find positive.

It took quite some time to find the "right dose" so that I can have adequate strength, and especially maintain mental clarity.

With very low T I was in a confused disoriented funk and could not concentrate and it was most unpleasant.

If I am going to be physically active or need extra strength, I can increase the dose.

And sometimes I just omit taking it altogether when a) it seems apparent I have just a bit too much (you can tell) or b) I forget to use it, or c) I just don't think I need it.

The cost? Well, it is what it is. Just have to make adjustments in other non-priority expenses.

Better to be someone who can afford it but chooses to not take it than someone who would like to take it but can't afford it.

I found upon starting it that a constant dose for 90 days was needed to find out the long term effects.

Which in the beginning was prescribed standard full dose, which was too much.

I decreased dose by 25 percent and went for another 90 days.

Finally got down to a dose that left me feeling non-sexual and physically and mental alert.

So I would say don't fear Androgel; the best part about it is that you can control your T level which for me is the absolute best part of the whole process.

My only wish is that I could have discovered and done this 50 years ago.

[nvrgag44 (imported)]

Thanks, janekane. your reply contains exactly the tpe of information I was hoping to learn here. I knew a little about phermones and did some reading about them after reading your scholarly post. I always thought they were only smell related but I see they can actually be in the air waiting to be absorbed by a receptor. I also learned those with varying sexual orientations react differently to the same phermones. It just reaffirms how complex our genetic make up really is.

I also agree that I'm best off not experimenting with Androgel. I have other medical conditions that could worsen with TRT. Even though my T levels are rather low now I'm fine with that. I wouldn't mind them even being lower, as long as I don't start feeling like I'm on Lupron again.

As you also said, who knows if my increased sexual attraction to men is the result of low T. I should clarify that too. I have been Bi since puberty and was sexually experimenting with boys my age years before I even kissed a female other than family members. Most of my life I was equally attracted to both sexs. It's only within the last couple years my attraction to men only has developed. I should add that I've always been guiltless and comfortable with my sexuality, reveal it to people I choose to and otherwise keep it to myself. I also have no interest in sexuality as a political issue.

Thanks again for your response.

[Woggler58 (imported)]

Yes, successful prostate cancer treatments do mess up one’s sexual performance and to varying extent one’s testosterone production, but not as badly as if they are unsuccessful.

I have lots of similar circumstances with you: 1+ year older; successful radiation for prostate cancer 5 years ago that left me with reluctant, half-hard erections and only a few clear drops of fluid ooze out during an otherwise normal orgasm. My testosterone levels dropped by 50% to 210 due to the radiation, my genitals shrank, and I later obtained Rx for TRT. Due to their own menopause, I have had no sex-desiring women in my life since the radiation, but my seldom acted-on bi-side blossomed in compensation. My libido declined a lot during low T but relatively less as to men. Erotic fascination with castration was discovered at age 27, more avidly pursued since around age 55, always as a fantasy that presumed I got TRT afterward, as did a voluntarily castrated swinger I was corresponding with a few years ago. I disliked the muscular weakness and fatigue that low T causes. I too take meds for blood pressure, (plus for elevated glucose, low thyroid output, and blood vessel restriction factors, none of which conditions are erection improvers.)

Differences however include these: I studied prostate cancer intensively on my own after PSA was discovered to be increasing and made my own decisions as to who would treat me and by which options; with MD concurrence I chose not have any T-suppressing Lupron or other T-reducing measures at any time; I have ordered my own lab tests since a year before the prostate issue came up and I tabulate and note trends in their results; I knew I had low-normal T levels from 6 years ago and wanted TRT all along, but to begin it I had to await a track record of steady, low PSA indicating no more prostate cancer activity. I did not have a GP until a year ago. My bi-sexuality is about 80% F, 20% M.

Reply comments: For 2-1/2 years I have taken daily rub-on bio-identical T as a gel supplied by a compounding pharmacy for US $48 per month as prescribed by my hormone-specialist MD on a self-pay, off-Medicare basis; our target of 750-900 is in the top quarter of the wide “normal” range (pre-radiation I was at 360 to 410.) Low T is both a cause and a consequence of the “aging process”, as are low levels of myriad other substances in the body. My excursion toward the male gender for sex and my lowered general sex drive swung back slowly since TRT took hold, but more important to me, both physical and mental fatigue very quickly vanished, as did my exasperating low muscular strength.

Radiation sufficient to kill cancer in the prostate will severely impair function of the surviving, non-cancerous parts of it, hence little to no ejaculate anymore. It also damages adjoining nerves that are needed to trigger erections via a touchy, multi-step physiological process. T greatly influences prostate activity, including the fluids it makes; I’ve noted a recent increase in the meager amount of the clear, non-jelled fluid that oozes out as ejaculate, along with a slow PSA increase during 2011 from 0.3 to 0.6, now leveled off. Your GP wasn’t wrong about that effect of T, but his antipathy to going on TRT after prostate cancer’s apparent cure may not have considered info emerging less than 3 years ago that clears up some erroneous understandings of Dr. Huggins’ 1941 research on T deprivation's value for stalling active prostate cancer. My GP and my urologist (new to me in 2011) are OK with my TRT. Slow T recovery to a lower level than before has been reported of Lupron after it is no longer taken.

You seem happy with your present life with unassisted T levels in the low-mid 100’s. Now that you have Androgel on hand, you can take some to discover how you like its effects on you, some of which effects would emerge faster than others. My own hormone MD says it’s the subjective effects that count most, not the lab numbers. Those lab numbers depend on timing of the blood draw with respect to when the last T application happened; bio-identical T absorbs over a few hours and diminishes from the blood over the rest of the day, though not changing nearly so fast from within T-using cells. If you’re on TRT, your own testicular source of T may no longer supply what it has been, depending on whether your internal, hypothalamus-based, closed-loop T regulatory system is “set” (like a thermostat) for the T level you naturally have been making, or for a higher one that your testicles cannot satisfy. If the former, TRT will newly satisfy part or all of what your hypothalamus wants, such that less (or none) of your own will be called for by the hypothalamus. If you stop TRT, it may take time to recover your natural T production. The same delay in recovery may apply if you take drugs to lower your T.

I’ve posted here before in ways that also pertain. See my profile by clicking on my username that’s blue-highlighted at upper left, then browse my past posts-- there aren't that many. Best wishes for what you do with your testosterone options.