On MTF HRT....But hornier?

[oogie292 (imported)]

So I have been taking a significant amount of estrogen since September and started taking spiro in December. I just bumped my spiro up to 150 mg 2 weeks ago and since then I have been unbelievabley horny and I keep getting erections. Before the 150 my libido had almost died and now its like back with a vengeance. Is this normal?

[transward (imported)]

So I have been taking a significant amount of estrogen since September and started taking spiro in December. I just bumped my spiro up to 150 mg 2 weeks ago and since then I have been unbelievabley horny and I keep getting erections. Before the 150 my libido had almost died and now its like back with a vengeance. Is this normal?

What you describe isn't that unusual. Your endocrine system works kind of like a sluggish thermostat that overshoots the mark. Normally your hormones maintain a particular balance between testosterone & estrogen. You make a change in that equilibrium by increasing spiro, which pushes T levels in the blood downwards. The thermostat responds by upping T production which increase blood levels (and libido) but overshoots, which causes the system to decrease production. What you get is an oscillation for a while until it settles down to a new equilibrium. A frequent side effect of this is wild mood swings, which is why it is a very bad idea to make major life changes until your hormones are relatively stable.

Transward

[purpletomato (imported)]

yeah, I think I had the same thing, it sucks. When I had libido spikes, I took 300-400 mg/day, and in fact did this for many months until things died down. I think it helps to take higher doses, but it might not be the safest thing -- talk to your doctor first.

[punkypink (imported)]

Actually I don't believe T alone is to blame for someone having a higher sex drive. I would instead say that the level of sex drive in any individual depends on the differential T levels and E levels. Since you're now taking an increased dosage, you've gone from having a T and E differential level that was minimal to one where your E is significantly higher. It doesn't matter which chemical is the more plentiful one, rather, it's the differential levels that matter. If taking more E and having no T could get rid of a person's sex drive, then how do you have fully transitioned trans women on T blockers and estrogen having any sex drive at all?

[purpletomato (imported)]

yeah, I think punkypink is right, estrogen can increase sex drive. here's a few links that suggests estrogen increases oxytocin something-or-other, which increases testosterone, which increases sex drive. I wonder how this works in post-castration folks ... is the T produced by the adrenal glands?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8713972

http://site.themarriagebed.com/oxytocin

[punkypink (imported)]

yeah, I think punkypink is right, estrogen can increase sex drive. here's a few links that suggests estrogen increases oxytocin something-or-other, which increases testosterone, which increases sex drive. I wonder how this works in post-castration folks ... is the T produced by the adrenal glands?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8713972

http://site.themarriagebed.com/oxytocin

I don't think it's because the estrogen increases testosterone. It's the differential levels that affect horniness. Thats why in post-castrated folks no T is being produced in the sort of amounts as pre-castration, but they can be very horny if the estrogen levels are high enough.

[littletits (imported)]

I am a full surgical Eunuch for over five years now and have no sex drive or ability. I cannot ever get an erection or orgasm no matter how much T I injest due to damage to my penis in the accident that caused me to be castrated. I have a completely limp and shrunken penis. I find it more convienent to sit to pee rather than trying to fish my little penis out of my pants. I am now taking estrogen and while there have been major mental and physical changes as a result there is no change in libido. It is as if I never went through puberty as far a sex is concerned.

[oogie292 (imported)]

Thank you everyone for the comments!

[JesusA (imported)]

Erik Wibowo, a young PhD student in neuroanatomy from Indonesia, is working on just this question. His initial research was with a large number of Wistar rats, castrated (other than the control group) and then divided into groups to be treated with different hormone regimens. Those rats on full testosterone replacement performed sexually like the intact male control group. More interesting, however, was that those on estrogen performed in male-typical ways, though less frequently than the control group (but far more than those on no HRT). A report on this work was published in the Journal of Urology:

Wibowo, E., Schellhammer, P., & Wassersug, R.J. (2011). Role of Estrogen in Normal Male Function: Clinical Implications for Patients With Prostate Cancer on Androgen Deprivation Therapy. Journal of Urology 185: 17-23.

Erik has gone on to survey the impact of estrogen on castrated males of other species. He has unpublished data on 13 mammalian species where administration of estrogen elevated male-typical sexual interest. This will eventually be part of his PhD dissertation, though some data will likely be published earlier.

There is also published research that prostate cancer patients who are on anti-androgens (and consequently have elevated estradiol levels) are more sexually active than those who are surgically castrated.

Erik and I, along with some other researchers, have nearly completed an article on estrogen therapy for prostate cancer eunuchs that will use some of the data from the Eunuch Archive survey on the impact of various HRT regimens on voluntary eunuchs, both BIID and MtE. We expect to have the article ready for submission some time this week. I’ll let you know when it’s published and make copies available to those who request one once it is in print.