Well... a day on the chatroom just shows how ignorant and hopeless it is.

[Sweetpickle (imported)]

There are some evil characters in the chatroom.

Some are sort of off the wall, like Moi621.

Others like Emily are just annoying.

Thank goodness there are a few pleasant guys like me,

who let people be what they want.

[punkypink (imported)]

Well, I still have fantasy or for real that a gal or nice looking TS have the honors to remove my junk:)

nice to see you don't consider ts girls to be girls. And for that matter, please stop saying TS to mean TS girls. There are both TS guys and TS girls, seems so rude to assume TS must mean ts girls, or to use it in a way to suggest ts girls aren't girls.

This is precisely what I mean about people who let their fantasies make them discriminate against trans people, by excluding a trans person from the gender group they belong to.

[punkypink (imported)]

There are some evil characters in the chatroom.

Some are sort of off the wall, like Moi621.

Others like Emily are just annoying.

Thank goodness there are a few pleasant guys like me,

who let people be what they want.

Pleasant? Apathetic you mean. If we were in the 50s working to establish racial equality you'd be the one going "oh let the racists be racists".

Least you forget it's others initiating the chats to discriminate against me, I didn't go and try to chat them up and then rag on them for being bigots. I let them be what they want, they don't seem to want to let me be who I am. So unless you're blind, stop being a jerk.

[punkypink (imported)]

I haven't been on the chat so I can't really say, but I might suspect it's a bit of genuine curiosity for the sake of understanding as ArcadiaGrim and JustJustin suggest, and a bit of callus self indulgence as you've experienced PunkyPink.

In my own life experience I've experienced both types of inquiry. I'm not transgendered, but I do have an obvious physical... shall we say characteristic. I've been asked countless times if I was born that way or if I was in an accident - as bluntly as that. Now this was before bulletin boards, let alone e-mail, chats, and online social networking so I had the benefit of observing the inquisitor's body language (and physical maturity) which really helps put their question into context. Online you really can't tell except by the nature and context of the rest of their written interaction with you and others - and even then one could be wrong.

I would think that if a person put some thought into my physical appearance they could correctly deduce it was the way I was born, thereby rendering their question pointless, and somewhat offensive. Other's you could tell (by body language, age, etc.) that they were really quite genuine and uncertain. While that can still be offensive and perhaps inappropriate, it's at least a bit more acceptable than those who ask for the sake of asking. When it's particularly young children, the kind who do not yet know of tack and are very open and direct about everything, I still cringe when asked, but for them I will answer without reservation.

For myself, if I ever feel such a question develop I think about why I want to ask such a question and would I like to be asked it (or the equivalent) and then, tactfully and respectfully ask, or keep it to myself.

In summary, PunkyPink, I hope you don't truly give up on humanity. I think there is a general decency among people, but it can be easily overshadowed by the thoughtless, ignorant, and arrogant.

Thank you for taking the time to post something thoughtful. What you say is probably right to a certain degree. At least you haven't thought to be a smartass like some self-proclaimed "pleasant" guy and gone for a snarky and ill-thought out post.

However I'd like to point out that most don't ask because they're curious or are out to learn. Most ask because they don't consider trans people as being part of their gender group (ie. trans men are men, trans women are women) as you can see even in this thread, at least one person has said "girl OR ts" meaning he clearly does not see ts girls as being in the same group as girls as a whole. I find that prevalent within people who're here solely for fetishistic reasons only, and their reasons for asking is less to learn, more because they care more about the physical, than about a person's personality(being superficial). The sad thing is, I've been on the EA for over 10 years now and I've seen Jesus and other long time members try to shift the site's focus on the purely fetishistic towards a more progressive direction covering wider areas such as gender identity, but it is very disheartening when you go onto the chatroom and the majority approaches one gets is still so crassly superficial and ignorant.

I think, those who suggest that it's just curiousity should go into the chatroom and experience it firsthand. It might revise their opinions about it being "just" curiousity.

[Slut_boy (imported)]

I understand that the thrust of your post was to discuss a bias against TS in the chat room specifically and society in general. The problem I have with your post is that it comes across as being highly critical of the chat room and by extension the people in it. There has been this bizarre feeling some people have that the boards are one set of people and the chat is another set that are some kind of nuisance. The underlying and occasionally overt message in your post is that the chat is somehow some sort of inferior or classless alternative to the boards. This is incorrect reasoning.

The boards are a place that allows people to think, write, edit and even reedit their thoughts. It is like a group of individual thoughts that you can contemplate and respond to. The chat is live and therefore there is no time to plan a comment and edit it never mind being able to edit it after it was posted. It is a conversation. It is also a conversation without any physical context.

When speaking to someone face to face we consciously and unconsciously follow body language and facial expressions to add emotional understanding (context) to the words of the speaker. The chat has no such context. The boards don't either but that is much less significant as I will explain in a moment.

Related to this is the pace of the conversation. On the boards the pace is in your control. You think over your post or response and submit it when you are ready, having picked your words carefully. In the chat you have no control over the pace of the conversation. I cannot overstate how much impact this has and how different it makes the chat from the boards. In the chat words are not always chosen with care. This is not a reflection on the chatters but on the medium itself. This pace that doesn't always allow you to choose every word carefully combined with a lack of context makes misunderstandings vary easy. On the boards a lack of context is offset by the time you take to polish what you mean to say. You cannot judge the people in the chat room by every word they choose because of these things it simply doesn't work that way. The only way to gain understanding of intent is to...well...chat.

If someone says something casually to you in the chat room that you perceive as discriminatory ask them what they mean. Tell them you feel it is discriminatory (in a nice way). I bet you will find 9 times out of 10 that people are apologetic and eager to learn the appropriate language that applies to transgendered sexes; that there was no ill intent just a lack of experience.

One more vary important thing to remember is that there is one chat room. There are dozens or maybe a hundred posts on the boards. In the chat all subjects, all people, all the different reasons to be on this site are amalgamated into one room not segregated into many specialized boards. In the the chat you are going to run into an example of every reason people come here: fetishism, erotica, confusion, depression, curiosity, loneliness, camaraderie, friendship, humor and sadness.

I hope you and others that look down on the chat room think about what I have said. Please realize that this post is meant to find you in friendship and camaraderie not antagonism. I sincerely hope to see you in the chat room.

[punkypink (imported)]

slutboy: like i said in the chatroom, those who are not guilty of what has been pointed out, have no cause to take offence. i think it's clear from post #1 the people specifically being complained about are the ones who ask the question i've outlined in post #1.

meanwhile, i politely disagree with you about the intent and motivation of majority of the chatters who've attempted to initiate a chat with me. 9 times out of 10 when ever ive pointed out what they say is discriminatory they turn abusive because frankly, they(most of those who attempt to chat me up)'re not there to learn. they're there for a cheap thrill. That is borne out by the fact they're not even on the forums. And nevermind that, just the number of people who turn indignant simply because i decline to talk to them about their fetish is staggering. If I say "i'd like to talk about something else" i get asked "why are you even here?" like ONLY sexual fetishes pertaining to emasculation can be discussed on the EA's chatroom. And I'm accused of being facist?

At least you seem to have taken a deep breath and attempted to re-read what the post is actually about. I thank you for doing so. It's more than I can say for some others.

[punkypink (imported)]

Laughs. So someone(Robi) on the chatroom just tried to be insensitive and rude outright... some people seem to suddenly forget their manners once they go online and behave in an utterly presumptious manner. What made it worse is that he seems to have set out to annoy me so I would "kick" his balls in cyberspace so he can get off behind the screen. That's just a new low really. How desperate do you have to be to resort to something so cheap and low like that?

[Wolf-Pup (imported)]

I think the reaction to the physical is in our genetic makeup. When I post on a site that is for the Transgendered, I mentally see everyone as women. I respond or post with that mindset. I also know that in the real world I see the physical and separate the visual presentation from the mental. I wouldn't treat anyone presenting as female as male or odd, but inside the thought that this used to be a male, or this is someone in transition exists. It's not a choice to think that way, it just happens. I am enlightened enough to not say or do anything stupid, but I don't feel the same attraction I do for other women physically.

As for the chatroom, I tried it some years back, and was asked for private chats almost continuously. "Are you cut?" "Are you a Eunuch?" and other creepy messages. It wasn't worth the time sifting through to find friends and nothing like the forums as to the quality of what gets posted here.

Wolf-Pup

[punkypink (imported)]

If

the reaction to the physical is in our genetic makeup,

one must wonder why some are able to overcome it, or lack that genetic makeip to begin with. I could also argue that it is in our genetic makeup to naturally be exclusive, which leads to racist, sexist, homophobic and trasns-discrimination behaviour.

Shrugs. If it really is genetic, then it IS hopeless. Point proven.

[Wolf-Pup (imported)]

Mind you, a from personal story I wrote to put myself in that exact positions. For me it doesn't work. That is how i am, just as what you feel isn't a choice for you, you can't force others to be able to see it either. I fully acknowledge there is still a great road ahead of us to grow. But for the here and now, I'm afraid it is a losing battle

{{{Hugs}}

Frank