Depo dosing at 300mg per week?

[SplitDik (imported)]

(note I'm talking about Depo Provera)

I noticed that this guide (http://www.guardureyes.com/GUE/Images/h ... uality.pdf) for using depo for hypersexuality recommends intra-muscular depo at 300mg qwk (which I understand means weekly) and found one site (http://www.understandingcastration.com/?page=29) that says that the dose varies with weight and for large man should be 600mg every 7 days. That seems awfully high considering women only get 150mg every three months.

For trans/eunuchs I've seen various dosage recommendations, but they are taking anti-androgens as well, whereas I'm interested in the effect on "otherwise hormonally normal" men.

Also the half-life of depo is supposed to be 50 days (although I suppose that might only be for women) in which case a weekly dose would build up about 3 times the dose amount in your system over time.

Anyway, I confused: how long does a dose of depo tend to dissipate in men who would otherwise have normal testosterone (not taking anti-androgens). And if it is needed weekly, then can someone explain why the mechanism is so different in men that women (and those on anti-androgens?) have half-life of 50 days (about half of 3 month refresh period) while men have half-life of 3 days (about half of week refresh period) for the same drug?

[SplitDik (imported)]

Interestingly in this Merck info page (http://www.merckmanuals.com/professiona ... erone.html), it mentions that for use for endrometrial carcinoma a dose of up to 1000mg/week through injection. While I understand that a high dose might be prudent when battling cancer, it still seems out of line with the fact that the half-life confirmed in the same page, is 50 days. That means that the blood levels will be about 30 times higher than for a woman taking it for contraception!

[SplitDik (imported)]

What is also confusing is that the "half-life" listed for the intra-muscular injection may be more a factor of absorption from the injection site (see http://www.rxmed.com/b.main/b2.pharmace ... OVERA.html). Usually the half-life is how long it takes to metabolize a drug once it's in your blood, but I guess when they talk about 50 days they might mean 50 days of absorption even if the drug itself still only has a 30 hour actual half-life once it enters the blood.

However, that still doesn't explain the high intra-muscular dosages weekly that are recommended for intact men ...

[Caith721 (imported)]

It's likely caused by the greater number of testosterone receptor sites in the male body. Depo-Provera is medroxyprogesterone acetate, a synthetic analog of progesterone, the female version of testosterone. As such, it will quickly bind to testosterone receptor sites, inhibiting the action of natural testosterone. With then T receptor sites satisfied, testosterone production is lowered.

[SplitDik (imported)]

It's likely caused by the greater number of testosterone receptor sites in the male body. Depo-Provera is medroxyprogesterone acetate, a synthetic analog of progesterone, the female version of testosterone. As such, it will quickly bind to testosterone receptor sites, inhibiting the action of natural testosterone. With then T receptor sites satisfied, testosterone production is lowered.

That sort of makes sense (I figure it is something like that), but women also have testosterone and progesterone has different function than that even in women, so I'm not convinced that T receptors are satisfied by progesterone. As far as I know progesterone is related to menstruation and pregnancy functionality, and has distinct receptors.

However, wikipedia's article on androgen receptors does indicate that progesterone can "block" androgen receptors. I'm not sure if that is the same as binding, since it doesn't actually activate them (otherwise it would be androgenic effect). But it does seem like the progesterone will get matched up somehow to androgen receptors.

But do men actually have more androgen receptors? I mean women who take steroids will develop in very masculine ways, so I assume that all the receptors are present in women (i.e. to build muscle , deepen voice, grow body hair, enlarge "penis", etc.)

[italmusclebtm (imported)]

That sort of makes sense (I figure it is something like that), but women also have testosterone and progesterone has different function than that even in women, so I'm not convinced that T receptors are satisfied by progesterone. As far as I know progesterone is related to menstruation and pregnancy functionality, and has distinct receptors.

However, wikipedia's article on androgen receptors does indicate that progesterone can "block" androgen receptors. I'm not sure if that is the same as binding, since it doesn't actually activate them (otherwise it would be androgenic effect). But it does seem like the progesterone will get matched up somehow to androgen receptors.

I think the reality is a bit less absolute. There are chemical differences between each type of hormone (androgen, estrogen, and progestin), and even each variety of each type (consider how many different "flavors" of progestin are used in the varieties of birth control pills). From what I understand, androgen and progestin receptors are roughly homologous, but none of these hormone types are fully equivalent OR fully "opposite" of each other. Thus, women have low levels of androgens that play a role in their sex drive, and men have traces of estrogens in their systems that also play some role.

A specific hormone can "bind" to a receptor without stimulating it (I think this is what is typically referred to as "blocking" it), or it can bind AND stimulate it to varying degrees. Not only does each specific hormone have some variation in effect, each individual may also have variations in their sensitivity to that hormone.

IMHO, this is one of the reasons why this field of medicine is so complex - and also one reason it is so interesting.

[SplitDik (imported)]

I think the reality is a bit less absolute. There are chemical differences between each type of hormone (androgen, estrogen, and progestin), and even each variety of each type (consider how many different "flavors" of progestin are used in the varieties of birth control pills). From what I understand, androgen and progestin receptors are roughly homologous, but none of these hormone types are fully equivalent OR fully "opposite" of each other. Thus, women have low levels of androgens that play a role in their sex drive, and men have traces of estrogens in their systems that also play some role.

A specific hormone can "bind" to a receptor without stimulating it (I think this is what is typically referred to as "blocking" it), or it can bind AND stimulate it to varying degrees. Not only does each specific hormone have some variation in effect, each individual may also have variations in their sensitivity to that hormone.

IMHO, this is one of the reasons why this field of medicine is so complex - and also one reason it is so interesting.

Thanks, I agree with this. I know from my years of steroid use that there are literally several dozen "testosterone" esthers and each has its own different effects, as you mention.

The complicated thing is not only does each act differently, it seems that they compete. So progestin might act differently when there is no testosterone than when there is.

Also, there is a feedback cycle where your body tries to keep things in normal range. So if any of the hormones gets too high, there are actions to either limit the further production or to otherwise disable it. In particular this is true of testosterone -- if you think about it, it is really weird that extra testosterone would limit fertility for example. So all these work within ranges and weird things happen outside the ranges.

While someone above cautioned against experimenting with hormones, I think that if you are trying to achieve something hormonal (castration, feminization, body-building, etc.) that you have to experiment as it seems that the effects and side effects are very particular to the person and their specific use.

[italmusclebtm (imported)]

While someone above cautioned against experimenting with hormones, I think that if you are trying to achieve something hormonal (castration, feminization, body-building, etc.) that you have to experiment as it seems that the effects and side effects are very particular to the person and their specific use.

I agree here myself. And it's true of all things medicine - not just hormones - which it seems not many in the profession really like to admit. Consider how doctors often have to make adjustments to things like cholesterol, blood pressure meds, or hell, even allergy meds. Though I still wish there was more data available from pure research, as opposed to just the drug companies who are testing new products.