Reining in the Controversy.

[Riverwind (imported)]

Sense the other thread is closed, I wish to apology to anybody I may have offended, however I stick by what I said.

Talula is working on the new format for the story board, its really coming along nice.

What we need now is for someone to go through all these posts and put some kind of order to them so we don't loose track and can then bring them all up at the MOM event to talk about, and more importantly decide how and were we go from there. Some things will be put on the front page for people to vote on so that soon after the MOM event is over we can put the new system in place, with all the rules and regulations that come out of the MOM.

River

[Cainanite (imported)]

Sense the other thread is closed, I wish to apology to anybody I may have offended, however I stick by what I said.

Talula is working on the new format for the story board, its really coming along nice.

What we need now is for someone to go through all these posts and put some kind of order to them so we don't loose track and can then bring them all up at the MOM event to talk about, and more importantly decide how and were we go from there. Some things will be put on the front page for people to vote on so that soon after the MOM event is over we can put the new system in place, with all the rules and regulations that come out of the MOM.

River

I've been following the discussion very carefully since I created this thread. I feel I have a good understanding of what options have been discussed. I'd like to volunteer for organizing the ideas into vote points.

I'd be willing to write a document detailing the discussion that has been happening, so that it can be brought up at MoM.

When do you need it by, and do you have any guidelines you'd like followed? PM me and I'll get on it right away... If you want me to.

[janekane (imported)]

Sense the other thread is closed, I wish to apology to anybody I may have offended, however I stick by what I said.

Talula is working on the new format for the story board, its really coming along nice.

What we need now is for someone to go through all these posts and put some kind of order to them so we don't loose track and can then bring them all up at the MOM event to talk about, and more importantly decide how and were we go from there. Some things will be put on the front page for people to vote on so that soon after the MOM event is over we can put the new system in place, with all the rules and regulations that come out of the MOM.

River

In times of sufficient anguish, a cry of distress is both necessary and appropriate.

I find my ability to communicate accurately much impaired when I cannot observe subtleties of non-verbal communication when verbal communication is happening.

The comments on this thread surely will help those at the MoM who sort out how to proceed regarding the fiction archive.

I strongly favor trusting the Eunuch Archive "owners and administrators." I find no trace of a hint of any sort of willful deception on their part, and no trace of a hint of any sort of willful betrayal of this (interesting) community.

Being well-educated in the ways of pattern recognition methodologies, I have already been studying the pattern of post-fraudulent fraudshutdown (there actually was no fraud to be shut down) postings (wherever they landed during the episode of chaos), with the thought that I may be able to bring with me to the MoM a proper research-scientist based study of the pattern of the post fraudshutdown blunder posts.

I think it would be great were someone else to also sort out the pattern of said posts, and make their sorting available to those who meet face-to-face at the MoM, the better to recognize and optimize such choices as are soon to be made.

[Losethem (imported)]

First - I never said, nor do I think, that Talula is an asshole. Those were Talula's own words. Second, if you take out the one sentence you decided to focus on (the one with the word "Dictator") and take a look at what I said, you'll see what my main point was. I simply voiced an opinion that said I felt you were excluding a large portion of the archive membership from having any input because most will not attend the MoM. That's it - my main point.

I quote Talula from the other thread:

All the official announcments have said a decision would be made about them at Midwest MoM around August 18th. Join us there and let your voice be heard about thier fate.

tal

That statement, which I've seen repeated, gives the impression that if a user does not attend the MoM, that they cannot have input.

Then John, who lives in Sweden, made the following statement that sums up what most of the people who will not be at the MoM say, especially those that have to travel some distance if they were to attend:

Hi!

The only problem is that I live on the east side of the "pond", in Sweden and it´s quite far to go.

Greetings

John

Travel to the MoM is a huge block to put in place so that people can offer their opinion on the future of the site. When I read the statement by Talula it seemed as if the opinion of the management of the EA was that if you don't attend MoM, your opinion does not matter. While it wasn't directly said, that is the impression it gave.

Nowhere did I say that I wasn't appreciative of the efforts that went into getting the site back online, back into its name-brand URL, etc. I know that a lot of work went into that, and I offer thanks for that. However, when I voiced a concern about how the decision was going to be made I was met with rage from Talula and Riverwind - wholly inappropriate rage because instead of focusing on the main point of the concern, they instead chose to focus on one word in it.

I think that was a huge overreaction to what I said. Especially since it was met with the following from Riverwind:

How dare you treat the person that is responsible for this site even being up at all like that, best not ever,I mean ever bitch again or your fucken gone. How is that for being a dictator?

Again, where did I ever say I wasn't appreciative of the effort that went into getting the site back up, back on it's parent URL, etc.? Gee, when you had the URL outage happen, I even promoted you, helped get your temporary URL out by posting it in other places that people gather. Heck, I even posted it on the website I moderate and ran it on the front page prominently where EVERY user of my site would see it so people would know how to find you.

I guess I'm just some uncaring, unfeeling jerk that has no concerns about the future of the EA or the broader community.

Coming into this thread here, I can see that you are looking for a way to gather input from the broader membership, which is what my main point was. Basically, in any business (if you want to look at this as a business) you need to listen to your customers. In the other thread the post by Talula gave an impression that the customers that voice an opinion in the store (in this case on the EA site) do not matter - only those who can travel to voice their concerns at the home office thousands of miles away count. Now, if that wasn't the intent, then that's good.

I also said in the previous thread that this is your site, and you'll do with it what you wish. I still hold that view. I didn't put a gun to anyone's head, I didn't threaten anyone with, and I quote Riverwind, "...I mean ever bitch again or your fucken gone..." or anything like that. Wow, what a way to treat a person who has been providing support and constructive help to people that are SINCERE, one who has done so for over a decade.

I don't think I or anyone else owes anyone an apology regarding this subject.

--LT

[Wolf-Pup (imported)]

Why not have 2 fiction archives? The old one can be "Eunuch Archive Classic" and remain as/is. Then whatever new software is implemented can become the modern story archive. That way no need to go through 10000 stories of whatever the number is....if there are certain stories that have to be pulled/deleted then you could just do it. If they aren't "deletable" you can always go in with a hex editor and wipe the content out.

That would simplify things greatly wouldn't it? The old stories are locked in place and since it is a custom format if it is frozen then it shouldn't crash. The new stories being stored in a modern format and move forward with the growth/changes of the site. Best of both worlds.

[Cainanite (imported)]

I have tried very hard not to bother the moderators of this site about the fiction archive. They have a lot to deal with.

It has become clear to me that a lot of people who love the archive are in fact, not participating members of the Eunuch forums

. The Fiction Archive stood as a place where

people who were afraid to voice their concerns could participate vicariously in the eunuch experience without putting word to their desires, or fears. This was definitely the case for me, before I found I needed the forums and the help it provides.

The problem with that situation is, those silent community members have not participated in the valuable work that is done here. They haven't figured out the etiquette of the forums, or who they should respect, and who they shouldn't piss off.

Since the Fiction Archive went down, Talula, Kristoff, and the rest have been pummeled with emails and messages that say something like;

"Bring back teh stoyz NAO!!!" and "Y U No have storiez animoar? I needz dem!"

I gather most of those emails have been insulting and demanding. They lack a complete understanding of how protecting the stories have cost the moderators personally, in both time and sleepless nights. I'd be mad about that too. Fortunately, I'm not the one who has to deal with anonymous hordes of unhappy internet surfers.

What has happened on this site is very important. It is about understanding what the eunuch experience means to ourselves as well as how the world interprets it. The whole of eunuch.org was shut down because of a complaint about the stories, and a fundamental misunderstanding about what they mean.

No one here wants to go around castrating children to get their jollies. I stand by my belief that none of what is written celebrates pedophiles, or promotes the mutilation of the innocent. Though the stories might involve terrible, or uncomfortable themes and situations, there is much more than that being explored.

I had my sexuality damaged as a child. I lived a half life crippled by my misunderstanding of that situation. The stories helped me explore what had happened to me, and why I am the way I am. Art is important in understanding the most complex parts of ourselves. Limiting that art damages the work the EA has traditionally provided. Removal or censorship of the Fiction Archive is a fundamental question that speaks to the future of what eunuch.org will be, and what help it can give.

The stories have been a touchstone for many current members. So many of us would never have joined if the stories hadn't been there. We would never have become members if we hadn't had the stories to embolden us.

Those people that are pestering and annoying the moderators are deserving of help, but they haven't found the way into the forums yet. They are afraid, and confused, and lack the bravery or the eloquence to express their desires freely. I hope some of them will one day join us, when they finally understand themselves enough to reach out.

Until then, they act like little children crying for their bottle. I feel sad for them, even though I wish they would handle their distress in a more constructive manner.

I think Talula wants to wait until the MoM event so that he doesn't have to deal with a bunch of whining, crying, desperate horde with no etiquette to speak of. Talula just wants an adult discussion with others who are as committed to the EA as he is. The MoM event is the best place for that, it seems.

The moderators have not been hostile or unwilling as I see it. They are simply being careful. I truly believe that they desire input from us all, they just don't want to be yelled at, and berated while they grapple with a very difficult decision.

I have worried myself that some moderators think that readers of the archive are using it for a quick masturbation session, and nothing more. No doubt there are those that do. (Probably more than I care to think about.) This is not a laudable reason for returning the stories in my opinion. I highly doubt most authors wrote their stories with that intent.

The reason for returning the fiction archive should not be to make happy a horny audience that wants a quick yank. It should return so that it may allow those who truly need an outlet to express themselves creatively. It should return for those who read it to know they are not alone. It should return for the people who gain hope and strength by living vicariously in a world where people think like they do, and struggle with what they struggle with. This was how the Fiction Archive kept me alive, and gave me hope until I was brave enough to seek the help of the forums.

This is big stuff, and it needs to be handled with patience and respect.

I hope the stories return, and I hope they return uncensored.

I equally desire that the stories are handled in a way that protects the forum community from further harm.

It is my belief that the moderators want that too.

[kristoff]

I've been following the discussion very carefully since I created this thread. I feel I have a good understanding of what options have been discussed. I'd like to volunteer for organizing the ideas into vote points.

I'd be willing to write a document detailing the discussion that has been happening, so that it can be brought up at MoM.

When do you need it by, and do you have any guidelines you'd like followed? PM me and I'll get on it right away... If you want me to.

If you wish to organize the responses into coherent sets, that would be fine. If there are specific technical notions, a listing of them would be good. As we get closer to the MoM, send it to me and Talula; we'll copy it to the others. Then we can have it all available for the MoM.

For what it is worth, most of us really want the story archives here, but recognize that there needs to be some kind of controls or protections in place. We need to figure out if we can do that notably with our content. Where to put it. etc. More ideas potentially means more options.

[ClassyBitch (imported)]

Jonathan Swift, 1729:

“I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in

London, that a young healthy child well nursed, is, at a year old, a

most delicious nourishing and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted,

baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a

fricasie, or a ragoust.”

“I do therefore humbly offer it to publick consideration, that of the

hundred and twenty thousand children, already computed, twenty thousand

may be reserved for breed, whereof only one fourth part to be males;

which is more than we allow to sheep, black cattle, or swine, and my

reason is, that these children are seldom the fruits of marriage, a

circumstance not much regarded by our savages, therefore, one male will

be sufficient to serve four females. That the remaining hundred thousand

may, at a year old, be offered in sale to the persons of quality and

fortune, through the kingdom, always advising the mother to let them

suck plentifully in the last month, so as to render them plump, and fat

for a good table. A child will make two dishes at an entertainment for

friends, and when the family dines alone, the fore or hind quarter will

make a reasonable dish, and seasoned with a little pepper or salt, will

be very good boiled on the fourth day, especially in winter.”

[Cainanite (imported)]

How wonderfully apt to read "A Modest Proposal" in this forum.

Jonathan Swift wasn't really suggesting to eat the children of the poor. He intended to point out their plight, and make people think rationally about a terrible, and hidden subject.

I expect the stories of the Archive are much the same. No one wants to make those stories that deal with terrible, hidden subjects a reality, but we use them to explore what we are, and what we feel. The stories stand as a gateway for understanding, not a recipe for action.

Thank-you Classy!

[transward (imported)]

Though I enjoy them, I could live w/out the stories. What worries me though is that it seems that a lot of people come here first for the stories and, finding the forum a place for (usually) intelligent discussion, stay for the forums. I fear that w/out the attraction of the stories new blood will not be pulled in, and the forums will become stagnant w / we same old guard parroting the same arguments over and over.

Transward