Reining in the Controversy.

[A-1 (imported)]

Exactly. But there is also the idea of choosing one's battles. If the current hosting provider or staff aren't willing to host it, we need to respect that. Not as a way of giving in to the prudes, but of acknowledging that other people have feelings and preferences. Besides, while it is almost certain that any judicial review would agree with you (me) about the legality of the stories, the cost in time and effort to achieve that review might make it a Pyrrhic victory.

Well, why not get a representative of the E.A. to take it to the ACLU for a legal rendering and opinion? Possibly, a commitment to defend the site and be a general counsel? Just a thought...

Suppose the EA site included a searchable index of stories posted in other places? How would we know there wouldn't be objections to them that are just as visceral as objections to having all the stories on the EA site? If the fear is that pressure might be brought on the hosting provider, where is the line beyond which everyone is comfortable that the pressure can be resisted? There are comments in the forum that are pretty objectionable, after all.

The challenge of this scenario is that the legal responsibility lies with the site that maintains the objectionable story. Not the site that merely acts as a search engine.

There are other factors too. If the fiction archive causes too much traffic, will there be money to pay for the increased resources or charges? If the controversy causes some passionate crazies to try to crash the EA server(s), will that be a problem?

Lots of things to talk about at MoM.

The E.A. has been crashed before. It did not stay crashed. If money is a problem then membership needs to be established to cover expenses. The E.A. would then need to look into non-profit status for many reasons...

Thanks, interesting questions on a very current problem...

[Cainanite (imported)]

Oh, I thought the problem was because those stories often include sex acts as well, and not just "preserving innocence"..?

But why would fiction and fantasy be banned when the worst things imaginable are allowed to happen for real?

Yes. Many of the stories tagged "minor" include fictitious adults having fictitious sex with fictitious children. My comment about "preserving innocence" would generally not apply to that type of story. Reclamation of innocence, O

vercoming abuse and the horrors of childhood,

would more aptly apply to that type of story.

My point was that the

stories on the Fiction Archive

do not celebrate the predatory nature that I believe drives pedophiles.

My guess would be that pedophiles would not be attracted to the Fiction Archive, because they are generally vilified by the stories. The type of power and destruction that attracts them is not present in the archive.

I'm willing to admit I'm wrong here. I have not read every story on the archive. There may well be stories that celebrate that exact type of destructive predatory nature. I simply haven't read it.

Also, I think pedophiles have enough other places that cater more exclusively to their desires than the EA. Eunuch stories are kinda specific in their themes. No pictures, no videos, no real children being harmed, no advice on where to find or lure children, no chats with underage kids to set up IRL meetings. All the Fiction Archive has is a bunch of boring reading about a subject they're probably not interested in.

I've only stumbled across a couple of real pedophile stories. (damn you 4chan!) They are not nice things. They are written where the destruction of a child both physically and mentally is laudable. Every paragraph is a new horror inflicted on the innocent, and the pedophile inflicting it all is portrayed as godlike and infallible. The child is as disposable as tissue paper. There is no greater meaning being explored. There is no allegory. It is simply sexual violence for it's own sake.

I've never read anything like that on the Fiction Archive.

[Wolf-Pup (imported)]

For me it isn't the content of the stories in the archive section. It is soley the extra costs they guys have to cover themselves if we ever become the radical left wing cause of the week and they try to have it shutdown.

1) We protect the gusy first and foremost

2) I know some TG and Fantasy sites are in the processing of looking into settup up a non-profit consortium for the future. I PM'd the guys heere about it, but didn't here anything back, except from Tula so I don't where that stands or they have any interest in joining with the other sites.

[jearns1985 (imported)]

If I am allowed to plead for its existence, I will now.

Please consider not removing ALL minor themed stories. I agree some are more dangerous than others, but not all should be painted with the same brush. Please consider carefully.

I respect what has been done here. I'd hate to see it come undone. I'll post back later when I have more time.

a few stories have been mismatched, my "New Locker Room" was flagged as minor, but it involved a college locker room, therefore, careful attention should be made.

any way for authors to get a backup of all their stories?

Edit: maybe this will also give the editors a chance to fix my horrible typo in my newest story, Dickless BLISS (Not Bluss.. grr keyboards!)

[gellyfregy (imported)]

any way for authors to get a backup of all their stories?

That's another idea: take all the stories in the archive when it went down, load them onto a DVD (or three) and give them away for a donation.

I have the impression that the stories are just files in a file system, as opposed to objects in a CMS. So it wouldn't be too hard to zip them all up. They might fit onto one DVD...

I'm thinking of it more as a way to get more donations. If sending a DVD with that content through the Mail is a problem, put it onto Megaupload or something.

[Cainanite (imported)]

I think the archive is going to return sometime after the MoM event in August.

The question is, in what form will it return, and should it be censored to better protect the community and prevent Host providers from objecting to what they consider questionable content.

My position remains that the Fiction Archive should be behind a membership login. Stories should not be viewable unless one signs into the Fiction Archive, and confirms their age. This will hopefully prevent

the casually surfing busybody

from being offended by reading something they do not understand, and thinking the Fiction Archive is a playground for mutilating pedophiles.

The scope of protection for the stories should be greater, but I do not agree with outright censorship.

I would be willing to participate in a forum, or review process that looks for validity of the stories, and how they speak to the eunuch experience. I have not read every Minor themed story on the archiv

e, but I understand that we prob

ably shouldn't be posting stories that are minor themed, unless their validity to the EA experience could be shown.

Of course even that much, may be too much.

This discussion thread is to determine how or if the stories should return. We know they are legal. This is not a concern about breaking the law. This is a concern about staying available on the internet, and how we do that.

Making stories downloadable for pay, may be a valid option, but I doubt it will be the way it happens. There may be costs involved with bringing back the Fiction Archive. Paying for membership may be a possible option.(not one I like, but possible nonetheless)

Keep the ideas coming. I hope to ask the admins to allow me to make a new thread with a voting option when we get more ideas. I'll wait until we are closer to the MoM event before we do that. Until then, keep the good ideas coming.

[Elizabeth (imported)]

I am basically against all forms of censorship because they are all rooted in religious beliefs, one way or another. What it's all about is making certain thoughts illegal. What business is it of anyone, what someone imagines in their own mind? As if this were something that could actually be controlled.

I don't buy this argument that simply because a crime was committed that something should be illegal to view. If this were the case, it would make the evening news illegal. I mean, news stations continue to show car chases even though they know that showing them encourages other to do likewise. They show people being injured by illegal car chases. They show people being murdered with guns, knives, cars, fire, and anything else that can injure or kill someone. These acts could not be filmed without a crime being committed. So? Should it be illegal to view them as well?

Not to mention the whole crazy notion that people who either read or look at illegal pornography are automatically pedophiles. I have news for you, almost every girl I ever met was sexually molested by someone. The official numbers say 50%, but it's hard to find a woman or girl that was not abused by someone. Child pornography does not create child abuse, child abuse creates child pornography. That is the real truth.

And lastly, censorship never works. It only makes people who were not interested wonder what is so bad they are not supposed to look at or read it. It attempts to remove the wrong thing. Getting rid of all the kiddy porn in the world won't stop children from being sexually abused. So even if censorship did work, it would not prevent even one kid from being abused. The way to reduce abuse is to educate people about the truth of child abuse. How it destroys the family structure. How it reduces children's self esteem because they are not old enough to process something as complicated as sex and love. How it breaks the trust between family members and taints relationships for life. Not just because a religion says so.

Elizabeth

[gellyfregy (imported)]

My position remains that the Fiction Archive should be behind a membership login. Stories should not be viewable unless one signs into the Fiction Archive, and confirms their age. This will hopefully prevent

[quote="Cainanite (imported)"

time=1310384640]
the casually surfing busybody

from being offended by reading something they do not understand, and thinking the Fi
[/quote]
ction Archive is a playground for mutilating pedophiles.

Having it behind a login would keep it out of the search engines. Maybe that would be a good thing. Having hits from the search engines might help folks find it who need to join the community (for support, etc). But not being in the search engines might keep the afore-mentioned csb's from finding it. Something to discuss. Maybe have a routine that admits the search engine spiders to selected stories without a login, based on the story's themes and our prediction of whether it triggers the squeamishness of the csb's, balanced against making sure something pops up to help potential members find the site.

If the search engines are locked out, the site needs to make sure members have access to decent search.

Are

you sure the csb's might not like the i

dea of there being a playground for mutilating pedophiles?

[BroBear (imported)]

I just finished reading the last few pages of this thread, and I fully agree that without stories the archive is empty and not an archive.

So, there are ways to control who gets in to see the stories and keep possible underage viewers out.

The concept of separating the stories off on a linked site is a very good idea, if action is taken against the story site, the boards don't suffer.

I see no reason not to have stringent membership requirements to be admitted to the story site, as well as secure log-ins.

Finally serving up content on the web is not free, I pay a fair amount of money for my domains, hosting and bandwidth. I see no reason not to at least require token annual payment for one's secure password, linked to specific ip address. (so the passwords cant be passed around)

I know I would and have supported the archive with money. I feel those that love the fiction will do the same.

I really miss the stories!

Steve

BroBear

[foxytaur (imported)]

Really Brobear?!.....Another paysite?..........

There's a reason most pay-sites(especially porno sites) are deemed untrustworthy

Sure their awesome radness in quality but.......

Let us recall why most whom buy into the notion of paying for their "adult viewing needs ......cough" get themselves into a huge pickle with credit card fraud and malpractice

I for instance got myself in trouble at 18 when i received my first credit card."laugh"

Site seemed ok, followed security ssl certificate standards and was https certified.

However carefully reading print (which I didn't follow at time.....slaps myself in face) didn't realize that these behemoth porno services kept on signing you up without your consent to alternate DNS address's and they have a very obscure way of hiding this fact from you.

Canceling is out of the question bc they redirect you to these awful foreign representatives whom you can barely understand worth shit to resolve your cancellations.

But what would it matter?.........They sign you up to new services!!!!!

I definitely don't want this for our beloved EA and careful consideration must take place if a third party is to susidize service.

I'd hate a dishonest middleman anyday.nuff said!!!!

May I perhaps suggest a story archive following gpg open source implemented standards behind a login?

I've heard good things abou the Tor client and their onion networks.Good way to further mask the ip and make it difficult for search engines and third parties from finding

story content.

My opinion though you don't have to listen to me:D