Sucks being non-body dysmorphic on the EA.

[JessicaH (imported)]

Some seem to think out of ignorance or short-sightedness, that I am complaining unnecessary, others selfishly probably think I am raining on their (fetishistic) parade.

I didn't even reply to Batman's original post because I wasn't sure how to reply without feeling disheartened.

The average human IQ is only 100, so that means statistically that half the people are going to have a 100 IQ or less. In other words, there are dullards here as there are everywhere.

I would recommend giving people the benefit the doubt. If you are looking for negativity, criticism or discrimination, that is what you will find. I don't think Batman was trying to be negative in any way and it was my assumption that he was asking a few questions to learn more about you.

Unfortunately, you are a minority of a minority and a lot of people aren't going to understand you. Most people here may not understand your unique position but does it realy matter as long as they accept you for who you are and how you want to live? You have been around here for a long time and I doubt that a single person on this site would like to "vote you off of the island."

[Mac (imported)]

Dear Emily,

You are a beautiful person.

I think that it all comes down to society being more accepting of genetic women being men than of genetic men being women, or of just being different from their norm. It is rather unfortunate that such discrimination exists. Hopefully that and all other sexual biases will soon be eliminated.

I enjoy hearing your story and envy your ability to live life as your inner person. Why can't we all be free to live life as our inner self?

In what ways do your lesbian friends discriminate against you? Do you experience the same discrimination from men and other women? What discrimination have you experienced on the EA?

The only real bias which I see existing on EA is political on the part of the staff and a few others. Opposing views are rarely accepted and we are accused of being what we are not.

Some Comments on Our Gender Inequality

The human male and female were created equal (like the other creatures) with no sexual inhibitions or hidden secrets. We were at peace and in harmony with God, the universe and each other. Gender issues, as we know them today, did not exist. Then, we created many artificial differences that resulted in unnatural problems, secrecy and gender tensions.

We first created clothing, to protect us from the elements but not to hide our physical differences from each other. That differentiation came later and created unnatural secrecy, curiosity and tensions between the sexes. What a giant step backward! Today, the clothing trend is starting to reverse. It is now acceptable for the female to wear all traditional male styled clothing. However, there is still a real bias against the male wearing any traditional female styled clothing (skirts, dresses, blouses, underwear, lacy and frilly items).

Next, we created an unnatural secrecy around the body and basic bodily functions. We established separate public restrooms, fitting rooms, locker rooms, showers, exercise and recreational facilities, sports and other activities for female and male users. This separation only promoted unnatural curiosity and perversion between the sexes. Today, I have seen genetic females (presenting themselves as women) frequently use the male public restrooms when men are present without any recourse. However, the male is still prohibited from using the female restroom unless he can pass as a female. I recently read where a man tried to file a lawsuit against a woman for such action. He was charged with filing a frivolous lawsuit and fined. The family restroom addresses some aspects of this bias by permitting opposite gender assistance for children, elderly and handicapped. However, true unisex use is still prohibited (even for married or opposite sexed adult couples). You frequently see women and couples using the men's fitting rooms in department stores but men are still unable to enter the female fitting rooms even with their female partners.

Women sports reporters recently demanded and were given the right to enter male locker rooms even where the men were naked. The opposite is still not permitted for male sports reporters.

Recently, several discriminatory charges have been filed against men for perverted sexual acts and for displaying lewd and suggestive photos of their genitals. No such charges have been filed against women for similar behavior, which appears to be acceptable. I also tend to be biased in this respect; liking the display of the female body and genitals while finding the lewd display of the male parts to be somewhat inappropriate.

We have continued these exclusions and differences in all areas of human life: employment, sports, recreation, family life, etcetera. Fortunately, some of these biases are now being eliminated. However, the rate of change is much too slow.

Why is this separation and secrecy necessary?

CONCLUSIONS: We must establish true gender equality for everyone: making all clothing acceptable for both sexes; providing true unisex restrooms with private stalls; providing unisex bath and dressing facilities with individual privacy; designing sports, health and recreation facilities for shared usage by both female and male users; and eliminating gender bias from employment and all other social areas of our life.

[Batman (imported)]

Gee Batman,

I thought this site was about people who wished to be de-masculinised or emasculated. Wither this means physically or just living the life of a female or androgynous person.

If your happy with your body but present as female thats good enough for me to accept you in this forum!

I could be out of step with the rest but that is the impression I have got from lurking around here.

I wasn't intending to imply that the site wasn't about all those things. Nor was I trying to say she is unwelcome here, which it isn't my place to do. I was stating that the EA is focused on testicles removal, shrinkage, negation. Which are ll physical changes. The site isn't tailored to what it means to be a woman in society.

If i offended Emily, that was NOT my intention. And I'm sorry.

[punkypink (imported)]

But some of us have no clue what to say to you Punky.

Whatever you want to be in gender is OK with me... Hell, I'm an easy going type that accepts people as they want to be. I can't speak about lesbian biases because I've never seen it. I can speak to lots of other bias. Don't stop. THat's not why I'm writing this. You have impassioned pleas as to what the world should be and that is good.

So I read your posts more for information than anything else. Other than this, I wouldn't have a clue on how to advise you.

I don't need advice. I need however, to occassionally get some hint that not choosing to be sheep and blindly following the crowd, that actually taking the time and trouble to understand issues of gender identity, dysmorphia, and what makes us who we are, that being unsuperficial, is the right thing to do.

Rather, there is a feeling that I am constantly being invalidated or feel like I'm purposefully being ignored out of disapproval.

[Mac (imported)]

I don't need advice. I need however, to occassionally get some hint that not choosing to be sheep and blindly following the crowd, that actually taking the time and trouble to understand issues of gender identity, dysmorphia, and what makes us who we are, that being unsuperficial, is the right thing to do.

Rather, there is a feeling that I am constantly being invalidated or feel like I'm purposefully being ignored out of disapproval.

Just how would any casual acquaintance have any reason to suspect that you were different in any way?

[punkypink (imported)]

The average human IQ is only 100, so that means statistically that half the people are going to have a 100 IQ or less. In other words, there are dullards here as there are everywhere.

I would recommend giving people the benefit the doubt. If you are looking for negativity, criticism or discrimination, that is what you will find. I don't think Batman was trying to be negative in any way and it was my assumption that he was asking a few questions to learn more about you.

That is probably the case, but how do I not feel disheartened? The EA is supposed to be a site originally set up to deal with a very controversal issue, one that is hard to wrap one's mind around, and like it or not, there is an expectation that anyone who can do that with the issue of eunuchism and non-trans gendered body-dysmorphia, should be mentally capable, a

nd open minded enough, to see beyond a physical focus.

I wasn't intending to imply that the site wasn't about all those things. Nor was I trying to say she is unwelcome here, which it isn't my place to do. I was stating that the EA is focused on testicles removal, shrinkage, negation. Which are ll physical changes. The site isn't tailored to what it means to be a woman in society.

If i o

ffended Emily, that was NOT my intention. And I'm sorry.

The world's moved on since the EA was founded, I think there is nothing wrong with the EA's focus shifting to be more inclusive too.

This is the problem with the world. Every group who were once discriminated against or excluded, tends to end up doing the same to smaller minority groups. It is the case with lesbians, now are you going to tell me EA(and by association, eunuchs) are starting to want to exclude others too?

Unfortunately, you are a minority of a minority and a lot of people aren't going to understand you. Most people here may not understand your unique position but does it realy matter as long as they accept you for who you are and how you want to live? You have been around here for a long time and I doubt that a single person on this site would like to "vote you off of the island."

Anyways Stacy, the problem is when people don't understand, they don't accept. They tolerate. And you see tolerance become a problem when those who understand wish to continue improving things for better, while those who don't feel that their fun is being spoiled. Tolerance seems to be on a "as long as you stay mostly out of sight and out of mind" basis, it is condscending, and ultimately discouraging. Because, if I am no doing something wrong, why

should I be tolerated? To be tolerated in the first place is to suggest something I'm doing should not be done.

In what ways do your lesbian friends discriminate against you? Do you e

xperience the same discrimination from men and other women? What discrimination have you experienced on the EA?

I believe I have in other threads, defined passive discrimination, and detailed how I experience and suffer from it. I find that with straight, non-cisgendered people, they actually seem more open and willing to learn, perhaps because gay people have had to "develop" their own identity and are now so entrenched in it that they refuse to change what they've obtained, even though there are oversights on their part.

As for the EA, I believe you can see how some people are pointing out that the EA is orientated towards the physical, even though that sort of view is stagnanted and unprogressive. More directly, I've had people tell me I am not who I am. I've seen a whole bunch of people who have tried to invalidate who I

am one way or another through their inability to think deeper, and through sheer ignorance or self-centeredness.

The only real bias which I see existing on EA is political on the part

of the staff and a few others. Opposing views are rarely accepted and we are accused of being what we are not.

The staff on EA have been some of the most progressive in understanding and even pushing for inclusion on my situation.

Hi Emily,

You are very courageous in living your life as yourself, under your own terms and in extraordinarily difficult circumstances. That is a terrific set of accomplishments. You also know far more about who you are than most people do by old age. For all of these reasons, and more, I congratulate you. You have my support.

Best wishes,

Danya

Thanks Danya, that means a lot to me.

[punkypink (imported)]

Just how would any casual acquaintance have any reason to suspect that you were different in any way?

Here on the EA, I don't hide it or mince my words. So any casual aquintance here would know.

In RL? Well, if I wished to date, then they would have to be told don't they? And once told, I wouldn't get the same chance as the next lesbian solely on a physical basis would I?

[Lesley (imported)]

providing true unisex restrooms with private stalls; providing unisex bath and dressing facilities with individual privacy;

QUOTE]

Having individual stalls would defeat the possibility of creating acceptance of the male and female body to each of the genders and those that lie between.

Be mindful that the Romans had public toilets and baths were all went nude, male, female or eunuch.

[Mac (imported)]

providing true unisex restrooms with private stalls; providing unisex bath and dres

sing facilities with individual privacy;

QUOTE]

Having individual stalls would defeat the possibility of creating acceptance of the male and female body to each of the genders and those that lie between.

Be mindful that the Romans had public toilets an

d baths were all went nude, male, female or eunuch.

We could still have communal nude unisex pools and spas as well as other facilities for those who desire them.

[punkypink (imported)]

Having individual stalls would defeat the possibility of creating acceptance of the male and female body to each of the genders and those that lie between.

Be mindful that the Romans had public toilets and baths

were all went nude, male, female or eunuch.

But we have to be mindful of those who are just not comfortable with nudity in front of others for whatever reasons. I want people to see past my exterior for who I am inside, but even in a society where people do that it does not mean I want to be naked in front of everyone. Being naked (and leaving the discussion about physical sex aside) symbolically represents one at their most vulnurable(or maybe at their strongest, and best?), most pure, and perhaps most trusting, and should be a privilege reserved only for people who I deem worthy.

I think some delineation needs to be done for issues about privacy and decency, and the issues of superficiality. The 2 are easily confused. And clothes, like it or not, can be, and for me, is actually a far more symbolic representation of my inner self, than my body. With that in mind, it isn't hard to see why the idea of general nudity is not one I am comfortable with. I am not ashamed of my body, I accept it. That should be manifest in that with a lesbian who genuinely understands that gender is what matters, I do not have any problems with enjoying sexual intimacy that would appear to be "conventionally straight intercourse". BUT! it does not mean I am proud of it, or want to flaunt it. What I was born with, I had no choice, no say in it, so why should I need to be ashamed, OR proud of it? I see no reason to be any more proud or ashamed of my physical sex, than say, my race, my natural hair colour, my height, my orientation.

I have far more reason to be proud of my conscious choice to be as knowledgable and learn as much as I can, to see as deep as I can see, to never accept peer pressure in forcing me to think a certain way, instead of simply liking what I like and be what I am without trying to understand why. Because it is a rational, concious decision to do what is right, rather than what is easy.