Eunuch Stories, Science Fiction or Fantasy?

[Prudence (imported)]

My point is Science Fiction is Fantasy but it is a Fantasy that at least attempts to be somewhat reasonable. I tend to think that the best Eunuch stories are a bit like Science Fiction. All sorts of crazy stuff can happen but they should be somewhat plausible.

Anyone want to agree or disagree?
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/quote]


I agree.

Slammr sums up my viewpoint perfectly:

I like both Science Fiction and Fantasy, but the story should be plausible within the context of the story. There's nothing wrong with magic, but you want your reader to be able to enter the world you've created and believe, while he's in it, that it's real. You want to be able to transport the reader from his world to the one you've constructed.

Don't violate the rules you've set up for that world.

I love SciFi/Fantasy because you can do so much more with it. Fantastic or unique things can happen, which could not if you stuck purely with reality. The stories I like best are those which stick close to reality as we understand it, but add in "beyond normal" things to spice it up. For example, Stargate, Harry Potter, Star Trek. Plus countless stories here in the Eunuch Archive.

Whenever I bring in something outside of the reader's reality, I always try to introduce and describe/define it a little first, so the reader becomes familiar with it. Then stick to these "rules" as the story continues on. That makes the story more plausible.

[SaraHughes (imported)]

Cant have an argument on the virtues of fantasy vs. sci-fi without a nod towards Piers Anthony's "THE APPRENTICE ADEPT"

Book One SPLIT INFINITY

Book Two BLUE ADEPT

Book Three JUXTAPOSITION

i highly recommend it.

Its about a man named "Stile" that is Very Short, but Very athletically built, a Nude Slave to a wealthy citizen on a lifeless mining planet. He is entered as a contestant in the "Olympic style" games there and finds a hole into a parallel universe where the planet is ruled in medieval fashion via Magic Wizards called Adepts.

in this fantasy version of the mining planet there is atmosphere and life in abundance... the story heats up as Stile must Continually move between the "verses" , competing in the Olympic games for his master on one world and Competing for all life in another. Will he unravel the mystery of what ties these worlds together before they are both destroyed?

[YourPhriendlyAuthor (imported)]

My point is Science Fiction is Fantasy but it is a Fantasy that at least attempts to be somewhat reasonable. I tend to think that the best Eunuch stories are a bit like Science Fiction. All sorts of crazy stuff can happen but they should be somewhat plausible.

Anyone want to agree or disagree?

Josh,

How do we define 'plausible', though?

On the surface, it's synonymous with 'believable', but at the same time, it *also* depends on the talent of the writer. A good writer can make totally implausible - and probably impossible - things seem perfectly normal. At the same time, a writer who's *not* particularly gifted might have difficulty making a fairly straightforward concept work right.

-YPA

[YourPhriendlyAuthor (imported)]

If we can conceive such a world, it probably exists.

Slammr,

So the Universe has its own Rule 34?

-YPA

[YourPhriendlyAuthor (imported)]

Every time on Star Trek they go from Warp speed (faster than light speed) to full stop I cringe. Everything in space, if it isn't accelerating, is in free fall. Nothing ever stops in space. It's always moving relative to something. They might match their speed to another space craft, but both are still moving.

Slammr,

Star Trek isn't *pure* Science Fiction; it never has been, and it never will be.

Anytime sci-fi is presented to the masses, it *has* to be diluted to some degree; if it's presented as something that requires a doctorate in physics to understand, Joe Average won't be watching. One thing that generally needs to be diluted is scientific nuances; for example, why do we hear a "WHOOSH!" when the Enterprise flies by? Sound doesn't travel in space, so we *can't* hear it pass by!

But we're *conditioned* to expect to hear a sound as a vehicle passes by!

Same with a 'full stop'; you're 100% correct that nothing can *completely* stop in space, but again, we're *conditioned* to expect that to happen, so that's the way it's shown...

I also have some problems with Warp speed, not so much that they obtain it. Although faster than light speed is impossible in space, there may be a way to warp space itself. Some portions of the Universe are beyond our light horizon because space itself, where those galaxies are located, is expanding faster than light. Space can expand faster than light, but objects located in space can't move faster than the speed of light within space. The only way the Enterprise can move at faster than light speeds is to manipulate space itself.

The question is then, how do they stay in sync with Earth and the rest of the Federation? If they're moving at faster than light speeds, they have to be seriously out of sync with Earth time wise. Earth should have aged thousands or millions of years while they are gone. Star Trek completely disregards the Law of Relativity.

Take a piece of paper. Draw two points on it. Draw a straight line between the two points. We know that a straight line is the shortest distance between two points, right? Now, fold the paper over on itself so the two points are nearly together; is the line that you drew the shortest distance between the points anymore? No. That's basically what warp drive does; it folds space over onto itself to make the 'shortest distance' shorter.

As far as staying in sync goes, I'd imagine that part of the development of warp drive would have, by necessity, included some sort of 'relativistic compensation' that counteracts the relativistic effects of near-light and supra-light speeds.

I wonder, too, how a Klingon or other alien life form can mate with a human. I would think it would be easier for a chimpanzee to mate with a human than it would be for an alien life form to mate with a human.

How do they do it? VERY carefully!!!

I'm sorry to see that hundreds of years in the future they haven't cured baldness. They seem to have cured everything else.

They've been too busy curing the other stuff; they just haven't gotten around to baldness yet...

Back to the subject of this thread: I have no problem with Fantasy, Science Fiction, or Magic, but the story, for me, needs to be logical given the world that has been created for the story.

Agreed!

-YPA

[A-1 (imported)]

Oh yes...

...and those movies that fire Nuclear weapons into space to blow up asteroids and so forth... they had better have air tight cases charges with air or oxygen...

...a thermonuclear weapon needs a shaped conventional explosive charge to start the implosion which starts fission which produces the fusion through radiation pressure and a 'tamping' effect.

...no oxygen = no conventional explosive ignition = no nuclear blast.

...fission weapons will not work, either. neither will a hand gun or rifle fire...

...any questions?

[curious_guy (imported)]

...no oxygen = no conventional explosive ignition = no nuclear blast.

...fission weapons will not work, either. neither will a hand gun or rifle fire...

...any questions?

I am afraid that you are wrong. ALL explosives will explode in vacuum or underwater. They have both a reducing agent and an oxidizing agent in them. That is why they are explosives.

Combustible dusts can explode if they are suspended in air which contains oxygen. These dusts will not explode if they are compressed into a cake or dispersed in air without oxygen.

[A-1 (imported)]

I am afraid that you are wrong. ALL explosives will explode in vacuum or underwater. They have both a reducing agent and an oxidizing agent in them. That is why they are explosives.

Combustible dusts can explode if they are suspended in air which contains oxygen. These dusts will not explode if they are compressed into a cake or dispersed in air without oxygen.

Notice that I said "Conventional"

NOT all explosives can operate without oxygen or when wet. Guns do not fire when the powder is wet. It the shell is not watertight the round will not fire. It is according to what type of explosive that you are dealing with. I know a "shark stick" fires shotgun shells. But they have to be waterproof.

Ever try to light a wet firecracker? However, we used to put m-80's in clay mud, light them and go fishing. P.S. Don't let a game warden catch you doing this...

The explosives have to be specially formulated to blow up in outer space. This is how the stages of a missile are separated, by explosive bolts. So yes, you are right, but the weapon has to be specially designed to explode in such an environment. Maybe I should have said that they are not reliable...?

[Cainanite (imported)]

Just a note on plausibility.

To me, it is plausible for a universe to exist, perhaps even ours in the future, where castration is both common and completely routine.

I think of circumcision. Despite the benefits of such a practice being debunked, millions of male children have this done to them every year. Most male babies in North America have it done for no other reason than parents prefer the aesthetic. Is castration really that big of a leap? Parents are making a decision that will effect their child's sexuality over their entire life.

Our past is filled with castration. Every culture seemed to revel in it for whatever reason they could justify.

Even up to the middle of the twentieth century, men, women, boys and girls were sterilized in the state sponsored program of eugenics. This happened in the United States, Canada, Mexico, and across Europe. It wasn't completely phased out until the mid seventies. It was pseudo-science malarkey, but it was real for far too many people who had no choice.

Many of the stories on the archive

are fantasy, and would be classified as such. The Authors create a world where castration is common, and accepted. These worlds operate very differently from our own. They have different histories and different motivations. There are different religions, and different science or magic. The social structures are mutated and unrecognizable compared to those with which we actually live.

Many are science fiction. They expand on the technology and problems of today to branch out into an alternate future. The Simon stories are science fiction. Neutersol, as it is described does not exist. If it did, and the political and sociological framework of our world changed to allow it, the world C van D describes would be very realistic.

All fiction stories are fantasies. No science fiction is 100% accurate. Even Science fiction must delve into fantasy to close the gaps in logic.

The most down to earth telling of any story, if fiction, is a fantasy. One could argue that even non-fiction memoirs use fantasy to tell their story. Who could really tell a tale, if it were 100% true? We gloss over points, and imagine motivations for people, when we couldn't possibly know for sure what they were thinking.

Castration is real. It is very plausible. Just because a story has castration, doesn't necessarily mean it is either Science Fiction or Fantasy. Castration is an element. How it is done, and the world in which it is set, will define that classification.

In the movie of the life of Farinelli, they tell the story of the main character's castration. That was real. It happened, but how the writer and director chose to tell it was a fantasy.

I have read castration stories that I would call historical epics, romance, suspense, and thrillers. Some are horror, some are fantasy, and some are science fiction. Castration itself does not define it.

As long as it is plausible in the context of the story, it works.