What does "gay" mean?

[JesusA (imported)]

Afghan Men Struggle With Sexual Identity, Study Finds

Fox News

January 28, 2010

As if U.S. troops and diplomats didn't have enough to worry about in trying to understand Afghan culture, a new report suggests an entire region in the country is coping with a sexual identity crisis.

An unclassified study from a military research unit in southern Afghanistan details how homosexual behavior is unusually common among men in the large ethnic group known as Pashtuns -- though they seem to be in complete denial about it.

The study, obtained by Fox News, found that Pashtun men commonly have sex with other men, admire other men physically, have sexual relationships with boys and shun women both socially and sexually -- yet they completely reject the label of "homosexual." The research was conducted as part of a longstanding effort to better understand Afghan culture and improve Western interaction with the local people.

The research unit, which was attached to a Marine battalion in southern Afghanistan, acknowledged that the behavior of some Afghan men has left Western forces "frequently confused."

The report details the bizarre interactions a U.S. Army medic and her colleagues had with Afghan men in the southern province of Kandahar.

In one instance, a group of local male interpreters had contracted gonorrhea anally but refused to believe they could have contracted it sexually -- "because they were not homosexuals."

Apparently, according to the report, Pashtun men interpret the Islamic prohibition on homosexuality to mean they cannot "love" another man -- but that doesn't mean they can't use men for "sexual gratification."

The group of interpreters who had contracted gonorrhea joked in the camp that they actually got the disease by "mixing green and black tea." But since they refused to heed the medics' warnings, many of them re-contracted the disease after receiving treatment.

The U.S. army medic also told members of the research unit that she and her colleagues had to explain to a local man how to get his wife pregnant.

The report said: "When it was explained to him what was necessary, he reacted with disgust and asked, 'How could one feel desire to be with a woman, who God has made unclean, when one could be with a man, who is clean? Surely this must be wrong.'"

The Pashtun populations are concentrated in the southern and eastern parts of the country. The Human Terrain Team that conducted the research is part of a military effort to learn more about local populations.

The report also detailed a disturbing practice in which older "men of status" keep young boys on hand for sexual relationships. One of the country's favorite sayings, the report said, is "women are for children, boys are for pleasure."

The report concluded that the widespread homosexual behavior stems from several factors, including the "severe segregation" of women in the society and the "prohibitive" cost of marriage.

Though U.S. troops are commonly taught in training for Afghanistan that the "effeminate characteristics" of Pashtun men are "normal" and not an indicator of homosexuality, the report said U.S. forces should not "dismiss" the unique version of homosexuality that is actually practiced in the region "out of desire to avoid western discomfort."

Otherwise, the report said, Westerners could "risk failing to comprehend an essential social force underlying Pashtun culture."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01 ... udy-finds/

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[StefanIsMe (imported)]

That is most interesting. Minus the misogyny (if it can be called that) and denial, one could see it as a rather open and permissive society. Reminiscent of the popular understanding of ancient Greece.

I always did feel most comfortable with the Pashtuns that worked in the lamination department at the print shop I worked at in Montreal. Great bunch, real tough-guys but you'd see them holding hands sometimes. I loved that.

Also explains the spike in Afghani Southern Province travel advertisements on the bulletin board at Giovanni's Bar in the city...

[nullorchis (imported)]

It's nature's way of helping to put the brakes on overpopulation. Friendship, affection, emotional connection love are not necessarily the same as sexual love. It is nature (testosterone) that creates the body over mind situation where a man can not help himself in trying to obtain sexual release and gratification. If that does not occur there are but a few choices;

remain celebate

masturbation

sexual activity with a woman, or man.

surgical or chemical castration (with no guarantee even that will kill the libido)

Our social structures of religion and government (which are sometimes one) create the chains that enable us to survive and endure living together in a social setting that is beyond a simple isolated family environment. But they are also the chains that bind us and come in conflict with our natural instincts and needs.

"Gay" is a nothing more than a modern word used as a point of reference that refers to two men being emotionally and/or sexually involved with one another in accordance with just one aspect of natural sexuality. It is the minds of humans that place opinion and judgement upon what has been passed down to us over many centuries. You can deny or attempt to suppress it all you want (between men, between women) but the reason it does not go away, and will exist always, is that it is natural. It is not the majority natural, it is the minority natural. Just yet another variation of sexuality. Some life forms change their sex from male to female, naturally. Some life forms, like snails, are both male and female. Homosexuality is just nature being nature. Hopefully some day the human mind will become mature enough to accept this.

[chemcast scot (imported)]

It just goes to show how differant people interpret things, from the extream to the mild but those who take it to the extream get everyone the bad name.

[tugon (imported)]

I have known a number of men who did not consider themselves gay because they were attracted to women. Just because they were horny and could not find a woman for sex they would find release with a gay man. In prisons men find sexual release with other men. I doubt if they would consider themselves gay. There are other sitiations where men make do with who is available. Of course in a situation where the men have ready access to women but still choose another man I would have to say gay.

I find it interesting that their religion teaches them such negatives about women that they choose one another. Sounds like a group of men on the down low. I wonder what the woman are up to when the men are ignoring them?

[DeaconBlues (imported)]

"I am NOT gay, but I have made love to a few guys who were..."

[Twinsenboy (imported)]

Fox News wants us ALL to be "gay" =)

[nullorchis (imported)]

GAY means never having to say you are sorry for bringing a baby into this world by accident.

It won't happen, but it would sure be interesting to know how many men, worldwide, of different cultures, of different religions, would submit themselves for castration if castration was free in medical clinics. What would their reasons be for seeking castration? Probably the same as participants and visitors to the EA.

And if chemical castration drugs were free; how many men would seek that alternative.?

Society and individuals seek harmony; yet it is difficult to impossible to obtain it when society will not let the individual obtain sexual neutrality.

Society calls the desire for sexual neutrality perverse, unnatural, sick, but then imprisons those who act badly because of the sexual demons.

Make chemical and surgical castration affordable, easily obtainable, and socially acceptable, and the whole of society will benefit. If anyone thinks they will or might want offspring, their sperm can be collected and stored for possible future use. Harvesting sperm while a man is young assures the highest quality sperm anyway; sperm from older men can be genetically flawed.

[kristoff]

GAY means never having to say you are sorry for bringing a baby into this world by accident.

Tell that to the triplets

[nullorchis (imported)]

Nature, and societal pressures can cause men, who prefer the emotional and physical bond with other men, to engage in sexual activity with a woman, or women, as this fulfills what has been bound into male/female DNA for hundreds of millions of years ; survival of the species - it is almost beyond our ability to control this drive.

So, you are right, being a gay man or lesbian women does not mean

never having to say you are sorry for

having kids. It just has been true in my case.

I suppose if one is a pre-puberty castrated man, who has received no hormonal replacement, there would be no interest in sexual relations, no sexual urges, nothing had is nothing lost.

Even so, emotions are not all sexually driven. So, while I am talking out of my area of knowledge, I suppose a man could still have an emotional bond with another man, be in love, just not in a sexual way.

One partner, who had always been completely without any sexual ability or feelings might be, or not be, a mismatch to another person, of the same, or opposite sex. The person who was sexually capable is still going to need sexual relief; they can not help it as nature makes it so. But with so many other factors involved in personal relationships non-sexual male-male and female-female relationships, while less common, can continue to exist.

In such a situation a male or female who had their sex hormone removed prior to puberty could be physically male or female, but maybe never be considered to be homosexual or hetrosexual. A different term might be needed like homocompatible and hetrocompatible, just not sexual. Or maybe homoasexual and hetroasexual.

Just pondering.