Constructive Criticism

[Paolo]

As Kortpeel so eloquently said it in one of his posts in reply to a scathing (and just down right rude) comment left by another poster, feedback is the only reward that an author gets. This goes for EA or any site such as Nifty or ASSTR. Other than the hit counters in each story here, there is no way to tell if it was even read, actually.

It's not that authors don't appreciate or don't want to see criticism.

Anyone who has seriously put any effort into a story for any site wants to know if something is wrong with their work. They may not listen to it, however, as I have been guilty of in the past.

But one thing that no author (or any poster on any topic, for that matter) wants to see is harsh, insulting and outright rude criticism and open insults that serve NO constructive purpose whatsoever.

Several posts that were made in a "flurry" today by one single poster were removed, and that long-time member banned because he saw fit to take it upon himself and not only insult our already-under-appreciated authors, but to also challenge the authority of the Staff and the running of the EA at large when he was warned to tone it down.

The purpose of this post is to explain to Members who may have seen these posts that we pulled them from the Boards out of respect for the authors insulted and for the reading pleasure of other Members.

I, for one, do not come onto the Archive to find grief. No one else wants that either.

Posters should feel free to offer feedback, positive or negative, but it should be done in a constructive manner. This goes for both types, however, it must be noted that much like other forums, personal insults and flames based only on personal opinion of a story will not be tolerated.

Posts will be pulled, posters will be banned.

For instance, the following feedback is unacceptable: "Your story sucks and you should smash your keyboard if you get the urge to ever write anything again."

At the same time, the following feedback, although positive, doesn't tell an author very much: "I loved your HOTTTTT story!" Although it is much kinder and more likely to be accepted. You might consider adding a bit of what you liked to the review, even though it's good that you posted the review to begin with!:)

Feedback is hard to come by at EA, and in fact, hard to get from many sites. I have to admit, though, that I get much more feedback from the ASSTR subsite PZA than I do from the Archive. However, I appreciate any feedback and I do encourage members to post more.

Please.

It's just that if you want to point out something that you didn't like, do it TACTFULLY. Please.

Thank you.

[Batman (imported)]

Hi Paolo,

I'm familiar with asstr, what's PZA??

Thanks

[Losethem (imported)]

Gee, sounds like the same person I had over at MBM complaining about things recently. I banned them for 24 hours and reinstated them after. I've not seen nor heard from them since. *shrugs*

Still, I'm sure website moderators and story writers all know that you'll always have a thundering herd running at you with insults and criticism, but when it's time for praise you'll likely hear little more than crickets chirping.

--LT

[Dave (imported)]

I write and send mostly Sci-Fi, horror and Spec Fic stories out to more mainstream ezines, anthologies and journals. I have over 150 rejection letters in my files.

I can tell you none of those makes me feel good even when the editors tell me "it's good but just not our type of story..." That's still a rejection. It hurts. Even when they say "I loved your story but I can't use it or don't want it (they have reasons) that hurts. Those are my words and they are the most wonderful words in the English language (at least to me).

There are editors that reject stories over misplaced or misused commas, semi-colons, hyphens and "said-ism"... Two misspellings or one wrong verb tense sometimes gets a rejection even when the content of the story is solid writing.

There are editors out there who enjoy telling new writers that they suck and should never write again. That's cruel and nasty.

I send the first 200 words of a story out for criticism and I hide the knives and razors so I can't slit my wrists. It's not fun in any way, shape or form to get criticism.

Now I"m not a stranger to criticism. In the professional world, I used to have to get three reviewers inside the company and three reviewers outside the company for technical articles. Then and only then would I get a chance to present the paper (or story) to the world and get more criticism. IT IS BRUTAL, demeaning and depressing...

There's writing in the EA that will never approach being professional but that is not the reason it is being published in the EA. All of the fiction in the EA represents a distinct point of view. What we hope is that it is readable, reasonable English grammar (not perfect, but just good and readable.) There are fewer taboos in the subject matter on the EA for obvious reasons. We want to discuss matters that are not mainstream or suitable for children's book. The EA deals with fantasy of a very sexual nature and there are very few rules adn requirements.

So when you criticize, be gentle. Writers really are delicate little flowers. It takes a lot to write your innermost feelings and thoughts on paper (or computer). It takes a leap of faith that others will at least tolerate your views. It really hurts to hear harsh criticism.

[nullorchis (imported)]

I tend to think of "Constructive Criticism" as an oxymoron.

How about just "Feedback" or "Comments".

Unless of course one just wants to be a critic.

Then, criticism it is.

[Kortpeel (imported)]

I write and send mostly Sci-Fi, horror and Spec Fic stories out to more mainstream ezines, anthologies and journals. I have over 150 rejection letters in my files.

QUOTE]

The real crap when you submit stories to magazines and other publications is you have to discover what the editor is looking for. The genre of the story has to be right for any given magazine. That it's a good story, no typos, perfect spelling and punctuation is all taken for granted. The next thing, especially for magazines, is the number of words in a story. A writer may have sweated blood polishing a story and he's got it down to 2000 words. He submits it and if he's very lucky he'll actually get a reply. Usually from the fiction editor's little dolly secretary telling him they love the story but please can he reduce it to 1500 words.

It takes longer to do that than it did to write in the first place. If he resubmits the 1500 word version it usually disappears into some editorial limbo, never to surface again.

But it's oh so lovely when they do accept a story. Six months after it appears when you've forgotten all about it you might, with luck, actually get paid for it.

But remember, you aren't beaten until you stop trying.

[nullorchis (imported)]

Every time one submits a story to a publication, it is very similar to entering a judged contest.

You can submit the story to one, dozens, or hundreds of contests.

If it is a good story, eventually you will encounter a person who likes what you have written.

Rejected stories are not necessarily bad stories.

They have just not found the right person.

If you research and read about the long road to success that "Colonel Sanders" had before his chicken recipe made the big time, it might help give you some encouragement to press on.

If a story is not accepted, it just might just be before or after its time.

If the audience is not in-tune with what you are writing, it won't be of interest, not accepted, and yield no results.

There can be bad writing, but never a bad story.

It just depends on whether the reading public,, and editors, relate to the story.

There can be bad editors.

Just think of all the TV shows rejected, that were picked up by another network, and made it big.

Think of all the movie scripts rejected, that were picked up by another producer, and made it big.

And once accepted, writers do tend to repeat what worked, and go on to be even more accepted, and successful.

Sometimes you need to write for the intended audience, and not for yourself.

[Polemocrates (imported)]

I personally find that many of the stories are most entertaining and some of the writers most accomplished other are journalistic. The subject is of great interest to me and I do enjoy the ones that have drawn upon a subject that I am aware of.., ancient roman, frat houses, and the nullo. I often wonder what it would be like to talk to someone that understood nullo, viewing I have not, I do read all the intrepretations of the nullo state of gay, straight, bi, e.t.c. I am facinated at the fantasy that is drawn on to create the story. The San Carlos Island stories are so nuvo nullo that I have read them all and have found favor with the little subject that was used so well in the story. I wanted to take him home....heheheh...regardless, the barbaric stories are somewhat lost to me as I find the futuristic stories cold and hard to deal with, yet I do read them. I would not want to be part that cold hard world so that is really fantasy to me. I applaud all the writers and this forum for the wonderful presentation of such subjects. Thank You to all you writers, some are so proustian I could kiss ya....ciao...and thanks again....Polemo Crates

[Paolo]

As an addendum, I'd also say that (based on some reviews/emails I've received from EA and other sites) that just posting about what you'd like to see in a story, or in future chapters, isn't real feedback at all.

A constructive review consists of pointing out what you liked in what was already written. Constructive criticism is pointing out what just didn't work for you, but in a polite manner with some tips on how to make it better, or pointing out what was wrong. Politely.

Such are not useful reviews:

1. I want to see our hero get his _________________ whatever.

2. Your story was stupid.

3. Your character is an idiot.

4. I didn't like this story.

Well, that tells the Author a LOT, doesn't it?

#1 pretty much tells me, as a writer, that you didn't enjoy what was there. Why don't you go and write it yourself, then?

#2 I'm sure we all like those kinds of reviews.

#3 That narrows it down a lot. So what did he do wrong?

#4 Then why did you keep reading it, and why did you feel the need to tell us? If you did all that, then tell us what you didn't like.

[jman0001 (imported)]

It's been my experience as a writer that #1 can also express someone's general dislike for a type of story/character/plot in general, and it is always upsetting to be the author targeted with that one. Spot on, Paolo.

The best thing to do in a review/critique/comment, if I might add, is to be specific. It's a great way to make sure you're critiquing that story and not your wants for a story. And be kind, after all the story was free.