Last night I had a really emotional conversation with my other half of 9 years. He is being supportive of me taking the next step and going on some form of HRT. The tentative plan right now is to start at the top of the normal range for testosterone in an adult male and work our way down until I find something that actually feels right. In the midst of this conversation I was crying and I was compelled to try and answer why.
I have yet to be very successful in articulating why I don't feel that things are right and why I have this incessant drive toward castration that only grows stronger over the years. And why it seriously gets out of control when I'm hypersexual, which stems from hypomania. But amongst the tears, it struck me on how to explain it to someone that has no point of reference. It isn't obvious that anything is wrong by looking at me even naked.
I see that I have a significant incongruity between the level of masculinity that comprises my mind and cognition versus my body. In fact, I would describe my mind's level of masculinity as what most males would feel or be before the onset of puberty. It's almost as if when I went through puberty, but my mind did not react to the testosterone in a way that it should to grow fully and develop my internal sense of masculinity. My body had no problems complying with the rise in testosterone and developing into a mature form. It didn't take long before there was a lot of difference between my mind and my body.
I don't feel that my mind is hardwired as a female.. not even a little. I feel that it is mostly hardwired as a prepubescent boy in terms of masculinity. And in some ways, this incongruity gnaws at me. And for me, the smoldering problem sparks into a raging inferno during periods of hypersexuality. During these times of intense sex drive, it becomes insanely difficult to manage and it puts me at some risk of acting impulsively on castration. I can't avoid this problem and I can't hide from it. And even if I didn't experience periodic hypersexuality, the problem continues to get worse with or without it.
Now that I have the support of my therapist and a doctor willing to prescribe some form of hormone therapy to get me to the right subjective level of hormones, it has given me great pause. Given that the normal adult male range is 300 to 1200 ng/dL, what is right and how will I know when I get there? I am right in the middle of the range naturally, so I can move either way quite a bit and still be in the normal range. From others that have been castrated and gone on HRT, the response to this question seems to be.. you will just know when it is right. Maybe with my own experience in the future, I will be able to add something to the discussion and let you if I have a better answer.
I feel that this incongruity can be resolved by lowering the amount of testosterone to a more comfortable level. I have done it on my own with depo provera, but I have no idea just how far I went or if it was execssive.
I have some amount of hope that taking more testosterone will push my mind to feel less in conflict. But it may actually make the conflict much much worse too. I suppose there is only way to really find out.
What are your thoughts? Sometimes on the question of why, I can find little words other than saying.. things just don't feel right. But that is really hard for other people that don't have this problem to relate to.
Can anyone relate? On answering Why?
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guy26 (imported)
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raymar2020 (imported)
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Re: Can anyone relate? On answering Why?
Having read your post, it seems to me that you have several issues to address. Firstly, how much of your desire for castration is related to some form of body dysmorphia? If you feel mentally ( by your own words) more like a prepubescent boy, then is your castration desire based on your dislike of your general appearance, and if so, will it really cure the way you feel?
Secondly, being right smack in the middle of the adult range for testosterone is pretty average, so if you have extreme swings in your sexuality, it may be related to brain chemistry not testosterone. Raising the level, would only seem to be putting you in a position that the potential for some form of self harm is more likely.
Conversely, lowering the level, would it seems slow your sexual desires slowy til you reached castrate levels, and then by the voices of experience on this site, you would have little or no interest in being sexual.
Searching your own soul to try to find the real root reasons for wanting to be castrated is not an easy thing, and for virtually every individual the real answer is different. Trying to put a label on it so it "fits into a category" is not the best way.
As a teen , did you think of being without your testicles, even as they were developing ? Is your desire rooted in the need to be subservient to another male? When you say you have periods of hypersexuality, does that mean that you become temporarily obsessed with the sexual act or with the parts you have ?
I can relate to you some of my own feelings, firstly on HRT. I have never produced enough testosterone, due to my personal situation. I HAD to learn to function on a very low level as a teen. Over the years, since it worked OK, I never made any attempt to change that. When I reached the point that my atrophied testicles were removed, my GP suggested that I should at least "try" raising the level to a more "normal" level. I agreed , and began daily dosing with 5 mg of androgel. OMG, I am a different person. My energy levels at least tripled, and I found myself for a short time having those embarrassing spontaneous erections that teenagers suffer from. That I quickly adjusted to , and all the other benefits of the higher level I would not give up for a minute.
Now, I never really had testicles like most. They did not descend until I was 16 , and then were the size of raisins. They were poked , prodded and skewered on syringes in a vain attempt to turn them into "real" testicles. This led to years of unrelenting pain. They also retreated back into the inguinal canals, where they stayed until they were removed in 2008. All these factors made me quite comfortable with the way I looked, and in truth the worst time of my life was the brief period when they were visible. I hated having them!!
I have a personal belief that some among us, myself included were not suppoed to be equipped with testicles. They were a mistake of nature. My mind was hard wired to be a eunuch, and my body tried to match that , but the medical community and my parents interfered with the natural selection. Over the years I have known several guys who were born without testicles. They all thought that the idea of having them was rather disgusting. it may be that the root of your issues is similar.
Search deeply into your deepest darkest places, and dredge out the right answer. It certainly may be positive to try different variations on the testosterone level, but you must really delve into your mind to find what is the right answer for you.
Raymar
Secondly, being right smack in the middle of the adult range for testosterone is pretty average, so if you have extreme swings in your sexuality, it may be related to brain chemistry not testosterone. Raising the level, would only seem to be putting you in a position that the potential for some form of self harm is more likely.
Conversely, lowering the level, would it seems slow your sexual desires slowy til you reached castrate levels, and then by the voices of experience on this site, you would have little or no interest in being sexual.
Searching your own soul to try to find the real root reasons for wanting to be castrated is not an easy thing, and for virtually every individual the real answer is different. Trying to put a label on it so it "fits into a category" is not the best way.
As a teen , did you think of being without your testicles, even as they were developing ? Is your desire rooted in the need to be subservient to another male? When you say you have periods of hypersexuality, does that mean that you become temporarily obsessed with the sexual act or with the parts you have ?
I can relate to you some of my own feelings, firstly on HRT. I have never produced enough testosterone, due to my personal situation. I HAD to learn to function on a very low level as a teen. Over the years, since it worked OK, I never made any attempt to change that. When I reached the point that my atrophied testicles were removed, my GP suggested that I should at least "try" raising the level to a more "normal" level. I agreed , and began daily dosing with 5 mg of androgel. OMG, I am a different person. My energy levels at least tripled, and I found myself for a short time having those embarrassing spontaneous erections that teenagers suffer from. That I quickly adjusted to , and all the other benefits of the higher level I would not give up for a minute.
Now, I never really had testicles like most. They did not descend until I was 16 , and then were the size of raisins. They were poked , prodded and skewered on syringes in a vain attempt to turn them into "real" testicles. This led to years of unrelenting pain. They also retreated back into the inguinal canals, where they stayed until they were removed in 2008. All these factors made me quite comfortable with the way I looked, and in truth the worst time of my life was the brief period when they were visible. I hated having them!!
I have a personal belief that some among us, myself included were not suppoed to be equipped with testicles. They were a mistake of nature. My mind was hard wired to be a eunuch, and my body tried to match that , but the medical community and my parents interfered with the natural selection. Over the years I have known several guys who were born without testicles. They all thought that the idea of having them was rather disgusting. it may be that the root of your issues is similar.
Search deeply into your deepest darkest places, and dredge out the right answer. It certainly may be positive to try different variations on the testosterone level, but you must really delve into your mind to find what is the right answer for you.
Raymar
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kennath7 (imported)
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Re: Can anyone relate? On answering Why?
It hard to describe feelings to another person, I was there where you are at now but I always ended up in the ER and with large hospital bills
I could go for weeks with out acting on the desire to eliminate my balls
but it always kept building inside, kind of like how you describe
I like how raymar described how he felt or views the desire that one would have to want to be castrated
I always felt like I was not meant to have balls that it was an accident that they where there , or in other lives I was some being that was not male nor female
You are not a lone in how you feel
There are lots more men like your self who have had the feelings that your are going through be safe don’t try cutting them off your self
Do lots of research by reading our experiences that we put here on the ea
Try chem. Castration first
For my self I love being an eunuch and I have no regrets I would do it all over again except many years earlier
Good luck on your journey
I could go for weeks with out acting on the desire to eliminate my balls
but it always kept building inside, kind of like how you describe
I like how raymar described how he felt or views the desire that one would have to want to be castrated
I always felt like I was not meant to have balls that it was an accident that they where there , or in other lives I was some being that was not male nor female
You are not a lone in how you feel
There are lots more men like your self who have had the feelings that your are going through be safe don’t try cutting them off your self
Do lots of research by reading our experiences that we put here on the ea
Try chem. Castration first
For my self I love being an eunuch and I have no regrets I would do it all over again except many years earlier
Good luck on your journey
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guy26 (imported)
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Re: Can anyone relate? On answering Why?
Hi raymar2020.
No, my desire for castration does not have to do with body dysmorphia/BIID. Both my therapist and I agree on that issue. I have talked to others online over a number of years about this, and they also concur with that assessment. It is not an issue about appearance. It is an issue about control over my sex drive and masculinity, which is a completely different reasoning all together. I'd say in general I'm okay with my appearance. It might seem confusing that I would suggest that there is a disconnect between some measure of external and internal masculinity, but maybe the problem with this suggestion is the term masculinity itself. What exactly does it mean to feel masculine internally? At one end of the extreme, what exactly makes the alpha male mind tick? Like gender, masculinity might hold a variety of meanings to other people.
What the core issue comes down to for me is that things just don't *feel* right. I know that's really vague, subjective, and not very helpful. It is hard for me to clearly illuminate this position to other people. I have been driven toward castration since the beginning of puberty and it hasn't ever stopped. This isn't about being submissive to another male. I'm not even for sure this is really about whether I have nuts or not. I don't identify them as a part of my identify one way or the other, but I also don't feel that they don't belong there. I'm fairly neutral on whether they are physically there or not. I have always seen castration over the years as a means to an end. I believe that the situation at certain times in life somewhat drove my understanding of my desire for castration. But they all came down to control over my sex drive and masculinity.
I see the process of searching through the normal range of testosterone as a means to come to terms and peace with myself. I'm 95% confident that I will find what I'm looking for. Having taken depo provera in the past, it has shown me just how significant hormones affect my sex drive and sense of masculinity. When I find the right amount of testosterone, I might not be able to easily tell you why it is just right, but maybe it doesn't ultimately need a reason.
I have searched my soul a 1000 times over and then some about this issue. I have tried just about every way of looking at it and dealing with it on my own. In the last 6 months I have decided to work with a therapist on the issue and get an unbiased professional opinion on what's going on. Maybe there was something going on that I had missed or failed to understand. I have spent a lot of time with him to work together and really tease out rather there is some other issue at stake. One by one we eliminated non-obvious drivers for this desire of castration. It came down to a form of identity disorder that isn't really recognized in the standard DSM-IV. And obviously there is no by-the-book way of dealing with this issue.
You are right. There are multiple issues going on in my life. Hypersexuality is caused by hypomania which is just par for the course for someone that has bipolar. But not everyone with bipolar experiences hypersexuality. Hypersexuality for me is an insane level of sex drive that is simply out of control and it absolutely takes over my life. Once in a while it gets so bad that I am unable to really work and it can last a few days. No amount of climaxing offers any relief. I have had hard last for so long that my penis physically hurts like hell. I find that anything over 3 hours starts to really hurt. Hypersexuality is just a force that is truly hard to understand unless you have had first hand experience with bipolar and hypersexuality.
Hypersexuality won't necessarily ever go away, at least with normal to higher levels of testosterone. Hypersexuality in and of itself is a bad thing, but there are ways of dealing with it without changing my level of hormones. And the hypersexuality is only relatively dangerous because I have this underlying issue with castration. I strongly feel that finding the right level of testosterone will allow me to feel normal and not feel compelled to castrate myself.
Thank you for some insight into your experience with HRT and being an eunuch. It would be hard for me to imagine going from very low levels of testosterone and then finally experiencing normal levels of testosterone as an adult. Although given my situation, maybe I would have been better off? It's hard to know for sure when you start pulling on the thread that unravels the whole tapestry of life.
No, my desire for castration does not have to do with body dysmorphia/BIID. Both my therapist and I agree on that issue. I have talked to others online over a number of years about this, and they also concur with that assessment. It is not an issue about appearance. It is an issue about control over my sex drive and masculinity, which is a completely different reasoning all together. I'd say in general I'm okay with my appearance. It might seem confusing that I would suggest that there is a disconnect between some measure of external and internal masculinity, but maybe the problem with this suggestion is the term masculinity itself. What exactly does it mean to feel masculine internally? At one end of the extreme, what exactly makes the alpha male mind tick? Like gender, masculinity might hold a variety of meanings to other people.
What the core issue comes down to for me is that things just don't *feel* right. I know that's really vague, subjective, and not very helpful. It is hard for me to clearly illuminate this position to other people. I have been driven toward castration since the beginning of puberty and it hasn't ever stopped. This isn't about being submissive to another male. I'm not even for sure this is really about whether I have nuts or not. I don't identify them as a part of my identify one way or the other, but I also don't feel that they don't belong there. I'm fairly neutral on whether they are physically there or not. I have always seen castration over the years as a means to an end. I believe that the situation at certain times in life somewhat drove my understanding of my desire for castration. But they all came down to control over my sex drive and masculinity.
I see the process of searching through the normal range of testosterone as a means to come to terms and peace with myself. I'm 95% confident that I will find what I'm looking for. Having taken depo provera in the past, it has shown me just how significant hormones affect my sex drive and sense of masculinity. When I find the right amount of testosterone, I might not be able to easily tell you why it is just right, but maybe it doesn't ultimately need a reason.
I have searched my soul a 1000 times over and then some about this issue. I have tried just about every way of looking at it and dealing with it on my own. In the last 6 months I have decided to work with a therapist on the issue and get an unbiased professional opinion on what's going on. Maybe there was something going on that I had missed or failed to understand. I have spent a lot of time with him to work together and really tease out rather there is some other issue at stake. One by one we eliminated non-obvious drivers for this desire of castration. It came down to a form of identity disorder that isn't really recognized in the standard DSM-IV. And obviously there is no by-the-book way of dealing with this issue.
You are right. There are multiple issues going on in my life. Hypersexuality is caused by hypomania which is just par for the course for someone that has bipolar. But not everyone with bipolar experiences hypersexuality. Hypersexuality for me is an insane level of sex drive that is simply out of control and it absolutely takes over my life. Once in a while it gets so bad that I am unable to really work and it can last a few days. No amount of climaxing offers any relief. I have had hard last for so long that my penis physically hurts like hell. I find that anything over 3 hours starts to really hurt. Hypersexuality is just a force that is truly hard to understand unless you have had first hand experience with bipolar and hypersexuality.
Hypersexuality won't necessarily ever go away, at least with normal to higher levels of testosterone. Hypersexuality in and of itself is a bad thing, but there are ways of dealing with it without changing my level of hormones. And the hypersexuality is only relatively dangerous because I have this underlying issue with castration. I strongly feel that finding the right level of testosterone will allow me to feel normal and not feel compelled to castrate myself.
Thank you for some insight into your experience with HRT and being an eunuch. It would be hard for me to imagine going from very low levels of testosterone and then finally experiencing normal levels of testosterone as an adult. Although given my situation, maybe I would have been better off? It's hard to know for sure when you start pulling on the thread that unravels the whole tapestry of life.
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raymar2020 (imported)
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Re: Can anyone relate? On answering Why?
Guy26,
I totally sympathize with you, and while I have never grapplec with any of the issues you speak of , can relate. life is a challenge for many every day. For some, just the act of getting thru a day is a challenge, add to that maix homosexuality, bilpolar, and thoughts or ideas of castration, and you start to reach the meltdown point.
Stick with your therapist if you have a good working relationship, and by all means experiment with your hormone levels. You mentioned a partner of nine years, well, that is in itself an accomplishment, and even moreso with the underlying issues you are battling. The right answer for you will come out thru extensive exploration, and then whatever decision you make will be the RIGHT one for you.
I am available , if you ever feel the need to have a sympathetic ear.
Raymar
I totally sympathize with you, and while I have never grapplec with any of the issues you speak of , can relate. life is a challenge for many every day. For some, just the act of getting thru a day is a challenge, add to that maix homosexuality, bilpolar, and thoughts or ideas of castration, and you start to reach the meltdown point.
Stick with your therapist if you have a good working relationship, and by all means experiment with your hormone levels. You mentioned a partner of nine years, well, that is in itself an accomplishment, and even moreso with the underlying issues you are battling. The right answer for you will come out thru extensive exploration, and then whatever decision you make will be the RIGHT one for you.
I am available , if you ever feel the need to have a sympathetic ear.
Raymar
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guy26 (imported)
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Re: Can anyone relate? On answering Why?
Hi Kennath,
I totally agree that anyone seriously considering castration (even if they plan on taking HRT afterward) should try chemical castration for a period of time. From what I've heard, things may not be the same after castration even with HRT.
I have tried depo provera a couple of times. The last time was over a period of 4 months plus the time for it to wear off. I've heard 6 months to a year is far more ideal because the long term effects take a while to show up. At this point I have no real desire to go through with castration anymore. I strongly feel that using HRT to get to the right level of testosterone really avoids the need and desire to go through with castration. I know that isn't going to work for those that have body disphoria/BIID. But it seems quite reasonable for my situation.
I'm really glad that you got what you were looking for. It seems that many guys suffer with this problem for decades before finding some resolution.
I totally agree that anyone seriously considering castration (even if they plan on taking HRT afterward) should try chemical castration for a period of time. From what I've heard, things may not be the same after castration even with HRT.
I have tried depo provera a couple of times. The last time was over a period of 4 months plus the time for it to wear off. I've heard 6 months to a year is far more ideal because the long term effects take a while to show up. At this point I have no real desire to go through with castration anymore. I strongly feel that using HRT to get to the right level of testosterone really avoids the need and desire to go through with castration. I know that isn't going to work for those that have body disphoria/BIID. But it seems quite reasonable for my situation.
I'm really glad that you got what you were looking for. It seems that many guys suffer with this problem for decades before finding some resolution.
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guy26 (imported)
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Re: Can anyone relate? On answering Why?
Raymar,
I agree that extensive exploration is in order. From what I understand, it often takes between 6 months and a year for those that have been castrated to find just the right amount of HRT. I've also heard that it takes longer if they didn't measure their amount of testosterone before getting castrated because there is no normal base line for comparison or to use as a starting point.
I plan on being very patient and taking it slowly. I think it is maybe a little more important to avoid making too many changes constantly because of some potential to interact with my mood. But eventually I'm sure I will arrive where I need to be despite false starts.
I appreciate your offer. I'm sure I will need someone to talk to as I go through this process. I'll try to keep everyone posted. I know so many more people read posts and lurk in the shadows as opposed to participate in the active discussions. I was that way for years. My lurking first start in 1996 back on usenet before the eunuch archive and when I was in high school.
So many people come here with different reasons for castration. I think it adds a lot to the community when we come together and share our story. You never know who you might help by talking about your situation. That's why I'm sharing my story with everyone.
I agree that extensive exploration is in order. From what I understand, it often takes between 6 months and a year for those that have been castrated to find just the right amount of HRT. I've also heard that it takes longer if they didn't measure their amount of testosterone before getting castrated because there is no normal base line for comparison or to use as a starting point.
I plan on being very patient and taking it slowly. I think it is maybe a little more important to avoid making too many changes constantly because of some potential to interact with my mood. But eventually I'm sure I will arrive where I need to be despite false starts.
I appreciate your offer. I'm sure I will need someone to talk to as I go through this process. I'll try to keep everyone posted. I know so many more people read posts and lurk in the shadows as opposed to participate in the active discussions. I was that way for years. My lurking first start in 1996 back on usenet before the eunuch archive and when I was in high school.
So many people come here with different reasons for castration. I think it adds a lot to the community when we come together and share our story. You never know who you might help by talking about your situation. That's why I'm sharing my story with everyone.
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guy26 (imported)
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Re: Can anyone relate? On answering Why?
I feel even more confused today after reading about the concept of masculinity in a formal context. It seems that it should be obvious what it means and yet it seems to be ephemeral and difficult to pin down. Some notions of masculinity blend right into gender.
Among other things, masculinity can include strength, aggression, body hair, odor, the likelihood to fight in a flight or fight response, risk-taking, competitiveness, and blunted emotional response.
What do I feel I don't have? I have virtually no aggression. In fact it is nearly impossible for me to get angry. I have a tendency to diffuse a situation before it could begin to get there. I would never physically fight unless it was impossible to not do so. I have a significant aversion to risk-taking behavior. I'm not competitive at all and would actively seek an alternative course of action. And I'd say that while I'm not super emotional, I'm more emotional than nearly any guy I know. I naturally have a low amount of body hair. There are times I have a tendency remove it nearly completely.
What do I have? I feel that I have an okay muscle physique. I lift weights and run frequently and it does show to some extent. I have been doing so for a little over a decade now. I feel in shape and generally like the way I look.
And what about gender? Gender has a lot to do with social constructs and it seems even less clear on that front on how I don't fit in. And however I might not fit in, I don't feel pressure to do so. I have always felt at ease with just being myself. For some reason I have always commanded the respect of others and have not been pressured to conform to some ideal.
When I came out to a women friend recently about this problem, she wasn't even phased. She described me as being "soft" and could identify with the problem I described. As far as the idea of being soft I am gentle, nonthreatening even to women, and I push for intelligence, compassion, and friendliness. Not that that is a bad thing or anything. LoL
What is the incongruence between? It could be that my mind feels masculine and my body doesn't match up? But that conclusion seems to go against my general intuition. Or it could be that my body is masculine and my mind isn't? But that seems to go against the grain of things too. I would say that my features are young, boyish looking, and far from the ideal picture of strong masculinity. Or is it that both my mind and body are not so masculine? That seems most plausible. But that isn't an incongruity. So where is the problem?
i have no doubt that there is a problem, but i want other people to understand it too. I feel frustrated that the more detailed I try to get about the issue, the harder it seems to pin it down. It's like trying to look into a black hole and see past the event horizon. if i can go on some form of hrt and feel right, i'm completely ecstatic about that. But It would be nice for others to fully understand, even if it isn't required.
Among other things, masculinity can include strength, aggression, body hair, odor, the likelihood to fight in a flight or fight response, risk-taking, competitiveness, and blunted emotional response.
What do I feel I don't have? I have virtually no aggression. In fact it is nearly impossible for me to get angry. I have a tendency to diffuse a situation before it could begin to get there. I would never physically fight unless it was impossible to not do so. I have a significant aversion to risk-taking behavior. I'm not competitive at all and would actively seek an alternative course of action. And I'd say that while I'm not super emotional, I'm more emotional than nearly any guy I know. I naturally have a low amount of body hair. There are times I have a tendency remove it nearly completely.
What do I have? I feel that I have an okay muscle physique. I lift weights and run frequently and it does show to some extent. I have been doing so for a little over a decade now. I feel in shape and generally like the way I look.
And what about gender? Gender has a lot to do with social constructs and it seems even less clear on that front on how I don't fit in. And however I might not fit in, I don't feel pressure to do so. I have always felt at ease with just being myself. For some reason I have always commanded the respect of others and have not been pressured to conform to some ideal.
When I came out to a women friend recently about this problem, she wasn't even phased. She described me as being "soft" and could identify with the problem I described. As far as the idea of being soft I am gentle, nonthreatening even to women, and I push for intelligence, compassion, and friendliness. Not that that is a bad thing or anything. LoL
What is the incongruence between? It could be that my mind feels masculine and my body doesn't match up? But that conclusion seems to go against my general intuition. Or it could be that my body is masculine and my mind isn't? But that seems to go against the grain of things too. I would say that my features are young, boyish looking, and far from the ideal picture of strong masculinity. Or is it that both my mind and body are not so masculine? That seems most plausible. But that isn't an incongruity. So where is the problem?
i have no doubt that there is a problem, but i want other people to understand it too. I feel frustrated that the more detailed I try to get about the issue, the harder it seems to pin it down. It's like trying to look into a black hole and see past the event horizon. if i can go on some form of hrt and feel right, i'm completely ecstatic about that. But It would be nice for others to fully understand, even if it isn't required.
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guy26 (imported)
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Re: Can anyone relate? On answering Why?
Things seem to be getting off to a good start. The last time that I met with my therapist, he was wanting me to initiate a conversation with my family doctor about prescribing HRT. I've already met with my family doctor/general practitioner last Friday. He has agreed to work with me and my therapist on my issue and prescribe hormones to make things right. I met again with my therapist today to let him know how it went.
Now they just need to talk to each other. I've already signed the papers allowing them to do so. My therapist is going to give him a call this week. He'll either get back to me after that conversation or next week during my appointment with him. I'm not 100% sure what the next steps are. I don't know if my family doctor needs to run some blood tests or not. I've already had my testosterone levels checked before, so who knows. I guess I'll just wait and see. My ball park guess is that I'll start sometime in the next one to three weeks.
As I mentioned to friends on Facebook Anticipation can be a lot of fun, but it sucks when you have waited half your life to start down a new path. I'm patient, so I'll deal with it. It isn't that big of a deal in the long run on when I start. And I've already waited this long, so what's a little longer.
I thought it was also a positive sign that he read through all of the academic papers on M2E (male to eunuch) and BIID (in terms of castration) that I had given to him yesterday. Apparently he was motivated to read them. I was thinking it might take him a few days to get through them in his spare time at the office. It isn't a huge amount to read through, but you can't read through it in 5 minutes either. After he was finished, he told me he felt even more strongly that recommending HRT is a good place to start.
At my appointment, I talked to him about my inability to clearly put my problem into concrete terms and into words that would clearly convey the problem to those that have no point of reference. I mentioned that I had done a bit of writing over the last few days and I don't feel I have made much progress. It is unlike me to be at a loss of words or to be inarticulate. The more I wrote, the further away it seemed I got from the essence of the problem.
I have no doubt about what the problem is and I feel like I understand it completely even though I can't readily describe it. I think it may take time to have some framework to find those words.
When I mentioned all of this, he kind of laughed and said that it's okay. I don't really have to be able to explain it to anyone. That isn't really required. And I agree it isn't required. I just feel that I could contribute back to the community in some way if I could clearly make that articulation.
I also mentioned that I thought I would't have too many problems in general changing my level of hormones. There is one exception though. And that is a very slow rise in testosterone over more than a few weeks. I have encountered that in the past when the depo provera wears off and slowly my natural testosterone level returns to normal. Somehow that process I find entirely painful. When asked to describe what I meant by painful, I had no words to describe it. I mean none. It just is. It isn't a physical pain. It isn't anything it causes me to do. And it doesn't cause a specific painful emotion. There is just some low level thing that I find painful from the essence of my being. LoL.
I don't really have a problem going down on testosterone, but I want to be confident about that before doing so. Thus I think starting at the very high end of the spectrum and working down would be the most appropriate thing to minimize mood interactions with my bipolar. But I'm totally willing to work with my family doctor and go with his recommendation.
I'll try to keep everyone posted on my adventure in life.
Now they just need to talk to each other. I've already signed the papers allowing them to do so. My therapist is going to give him a call this week. He'll either get back to me after that conversation or next week during my appointment with him. I'm not 100% sure what the next steps are. I don't know if my family doctor needs to run some blood tests or not. I've already had my testosterone levels checked before, so who knows. I guess I'll just wait and see. My ball park guess is that I'll start sometime in the next one to three weeks.
As I mentioned to friends on Facebook Anticipation can be a lot of fun, but it sucks when you have waited half your life to start down a new path. I'm patient, so I'll deal with it. It isn't that big of a deal in the long run on when I start. And I've already waited this long, so what's a little longer.
I thought it was also a positive sign that he read through all of the academic papers on M2E (male to eunuch) and BIID (in terms of castration) that I had given to him yesterday. Apparently he was motivated to read them. I was thinking it might take him a few days to get through them in his spare time at the office. It isn't a huge amount to read through, but you can't read through it in 5 minutes either. After he was finished, he told me he felt even more strongly that recommending HRT is a good place to start.
At my appointment, I talked to him about my inability to clearly put my problem into concrete terms and into words that would clearly convey the problem to those that have no point of reference. I mentioned that I had done a bit of writing over the last few days and I don't feel I have made much progress. It is unlike me to be at a loss of words or to be inarticulate. The more I wrote, the further away it seemed I got from the essence of the problem.
I have no doubt about what the problem is and I feel like I understand it completely even though I can't readily describe it. I think it may take time to have some framework to find those words.
When I mentioned all of this, he kind of laughed and said that it's okay. I don't really have to be able to explain it to anyone. That isn't really required. And I agree it isn't required. I just feel that I could contribute back to the community in some way if I could clearly make that articulation.
I also mentioned that I thought I would't have too many problems in general changing my level of hormones. There is one exception though. And that is a very slow rise in testosterone over more than a few weeks. I have encountered that in the past when the depo provera wears off and slowly my natural testosterone level returns to normal. Somehow that process I find entirely painful. When asked to describe what I meant by painful, I had no words to describe it. I mean none. It just is. It isn't a physical pain. It isn't anything it causes me to do. And it doesn't cause a specific painful emotion. There is just some low level thing that I find painful from the essence of my being. LoL.
I don't really have a problem going down on testosterone, but I want to be confident about that before doing so. Thus I think starting at the very high end of the spectrum and working down would be the most appropriate thing to minimize mood interactions with my bipolar. But I'm totally willing to work with my family doctor and go with his recommendation.
I'll try to keep everyone posted on my adventure in life.
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guy26 (imported)
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Re: Can anyone relate? On answering Why?
I feel tired today from not quite enough sleep and intellectually drained. All this afternoon I have been going through and reading medical abstracts and journals as it relates to GID (gender identity disorder) and more specifically GID NOS (gender identity disorder not otherwise specified). I haven't been happy with the amount of information that I have found on GID NOS thus far. I feel a little privileged that I have access to medical journals in general--students, faculty, and staff get this privilege typically at a university. But it doesn't help if that material doesn't exist or you are looking in the wrong places.
I have also been thinking about how I will subjectively evaluate changing my level of testosterone to some particular level. I think there are three variables that will need to be isolated. Most people will only be dealing with two of the three. 1) Psychosomatic 2) Real 3) Changes in mood due to bipolar but induced by hormone changes.
I have taken depo provera twice in life. The first time was just a single injection of 150mg of medroxyprogesterone acetate. The second time was 300mg to start with. Then 3 more shots spaced a month apart from each other. Retrospectively, I likely had more psychosomatic responses the first time that I took depo provera versus the second time around. I feel that having returned to base line and trying it again, I was able to more accurately gauge my reaction to it. I believe that my ability to differentiate between real changes versus mood related changes comes down to self awareness, but it may take extra time to be sure. For instance, one's general level of energy is connected to the level of testosterone present. If I'm taking more testosterone relative to my normal level of testosterone AND I see an increase in energy, it may take time to understand whether the increase in energy is a real physical effect or due to hypomania.
I have been getting excited and cautiously optimistic about going on TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) and trying out the high end of the normal adult male range for testosterone. If there is any chance that I can really truly feel like a guy inside, I will be wholesale ecstatic should that happen. Several people have expressed doubt that I will feel that way going up on testosterone and it may exacerbate whatever problem or incongruity that I am currently experiencing. I am willing to take that risk though. Also, I have for some reason been excited by the idea that I could look a lot more masculine over time. This reaction is surprising even to myself and it seems paradoxical to the long term desire for castration. I made some comment of this form to my therapist at my last appointment and he didn't find it difficult to accept the paradoxical circumstance should it actually come to be.
And unexpectedly, my other half claimed last night that I have been acting more masculine or slightly more aggressive the last few days. I haven't the slightest clue on what to think about that or even if I agree with him. The only concrete evidence that he had was that I was driving slightly more aggressively last night. Nothing too bad. I swear. LoL. Maybe I was accelerating a little harder than normal.
The other thing of interest.. At least for now, whatever fantasy aspect of castration that I might have had appears to be gone. I've noticed this in the past when I made the active decision to go on depo provera. And the fantasy aspect of it didn't reappear for a long time afterward usually on the order of a year or so. I think that's a good thing, but I haven't heard anyone express anything similar.
I have also been thinking about how I will subjectively evaluate changing my level of testosterone to some particular level. I think there are three variables that will need to be isolated. Most people will only be dealing with two of the three. 1) Psychosomatic 2) Real 3) Changes in mood due to bipolar but induced by hormone changes.
I have taken depo provera twice in life. The first time was just a single injection of 150mg of medroxyprogesterone acetate. The second time was 300mg to start with. Then 3 more shots spaced a month apart from each other. Retrospectively, I likely had more psychosomatic responses the first time that I took depo provera versus the second time around. I feel that having returned to base line and trying it again, I was able to more accurately gauge my reaction to it. I believe that my ability to differentiate between real changes versus mood related changes comes down to self awareness, but it may take extra time to be sure. For instance, one's general level of energy is connected to the level of testosterone present. If I'm taking more testosterone relative to my normal level of testosterone AND I see an increase in energy, it may take time to understand whether the increase in energy is a real physical effect or due to hypomania.
I have been getting excited and cautiously optimistic about going on TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) and trying out the high end of the normal adult male range for testosterone. If there is any chance that I can really truly feel like a guy inside, I will be wholesale ecstatic should that happen. Several people have expressed doubt that I will feel that way going up on testosterone and it may exacerbate whatever problem or incongruity that I am currently experiencing. I am willing to take that risk though. Also, I have for some reason been excited by the idea that I could look a lot more masculine over time. This reaction is surprising even to myself and it seems paradoxical to the long term desire for castration. I made some comment of this form to my therapist at my last appointment and he didn't find it difficult to accept the paradoxical circumstance should it actually come to be.
And unexpectedly, my other half claimed last night that I have been acting more masculine or slightly more aggressive the last few days. I haven't the slightest clue on what to think about that or even if I agree with him. The only concrete evidence that he had was that I was driving slightly more aggressively last night. Nothing too bad. I swear. LoL. Maybe I was accelerating a little harder than normal.
The other thing of interest.. At least for now, whatever fantasy aspect of castration that I might have had appears to be gone. I've noticed this in the past when I made the active decision to go on depo provera. And the fantasy aspect of it didn't reappear for a long time afterward usually on the order of a year or so. I think that's a good thing, but I haven't heard anyone express anything similar.