Ending a sentence with a preposition.

[gareth19 (imported)]

Classy BITCH,,, LOVE that avatar.

Remind me to tell you about the guy who took a ball bat and walked over to another guy's car at which time the 2nd guy pulled out his trusty Japanese sword and chopped off fingers until the bat got dropped.

Can somebody else suggest to me what other types of words that I can end a sentence WITH?

Shit happens. [ends in an intransitive verb]

Carlos shaved his boy's pubes. [ends in a Noun Phrase (NP); any NP can be replaced by a pronoun.]

Carlos shaved his boy's pubes completely. [ends in an Adverb of manner; adverbials can be replaced by Prepositional Phrases (PP) or dependent clauses (DC)]

Carlos shaved his boy's pubes with a straight razor. [ends in a PP]

Carlos shaved his boy's pubes so he would look smooth. [DC]

Carlos shaved his boy's pubes to humiliate him.

Carlos shaved his boy's pubes off. [ends in a particle, a movable word that derives a new verb from an earlier verb stem; the sentence is synonymous with Carlos shaved off his boy's pubes.]

In normal sentences, the major stress and highest pitch occurs on the principal noun of the direct object (NP that complements the main verb phrase)

Carlos shaved his boy's pubes.

Carlos shaved his boy's pubes completely.

When there is no direct object, the stress falls on the intransitive verb

Shit happens.

Personal pronouns are enclitic, so when they appear as DOs, the stress recedes to the transitive verb

Carlos shaved them.

Because pronouns are enclitic and particles are proclitic (advancing the stress) a sentence in which a particle precedes the pronoun is impossible because the two rules conflict.

*Carlos shaved off them.

In that case, the particle must be moved to the end, to receive the principal stress.

Carlos shaved them off.

Because the self-appointed language police don't recognize or understand particles, the last sentence appears to them to "end in a preposition" and they would desperately try to revise it without having the skill to do so. With luck, such sentences will cause a coronary and reduce the number of "grammar experts" raising the level of education all around.

[Uncle Flo (imported)]

I am amazed that this thread has lasted so long. Are we thick with neutered gramarians? --FLO--

[Kortpeel (imported)]

I am amazed that this thread has lasted so long. Are we thick with neutered gramarians? --FLO--

Because it's fun. And because we all speak some English we can all have our say.

Which is more correct:

Carlos cut his boy's balls off.

or

Carlos cut off his boy's balls.

or

Carlos is a sick sadistic pervert.

[gareth19 (imported)]

Because it's fun. And because we all speak some English we can all have our say.

Which is more correct:

Carlos cut his boy's balls off.

or

Carlos cut off his boy's balls.

or

Carlos is a sick sadistic pervert.

The first and second sentences are synonymous; that is they are semantically equivalent and both equally correct; the third sentence is mispunctuated. It should be Carlos is a sick, sadistic pervert.

[Kortpeel (imported)]

the third sentence is mispunctuated. It should be Carlos is a sick, sadistic pervert.

Absolutely right but as I read your post I spotted two more errors in mine. I should have said which is most correct, not more, given that there were three sentences and not two. And I didn't have a question mark anywhere.

Hangs head in shame and creeps out.

[BossTamsin (imported)]

how bout we all agree english is a bizarely strange language w/more exceptions then rules? and unless u r either completely obsessed or anal, chances r that u r braking one or more rulez every time you talk 2 someone?

At least, that's how it seems to me. There seem to be far more seemingly obscure exceptions to strange rules than one person should need to track. I've heard it said that the Germans have purposefully set out to restructure and change parts of their language, in an effort to simplify and make their language easier to learn. Perhaps English speakers should do the same, and attempt to work through some of the stranger aspects of our language for the sake of future generations?

[considering (imported)]

I use the grammar checker in WordPerfect. It says I should change this:

I realized that I must have committed the sin Mike talked about.

To this:

I realized that I must have committed the sin about which Mike talked.

I think the grammar checker's suggestion is ATROCIOUS.

I am fairly sure that, many years ago, I read that the only reason that some people think it is wrong to end a sentence with a preposition, is that in Latin is that in Latin it is impossible to end a sentence with a preposition. What do you think?

I think that the sentence can be rendered as a more readable line if it's written thusly:

I realized I must have committed the sin which Mike discussed.

But who cares how Mike committed his sin isn't it more interesting to know which sin Mike committed and how he ended it? We do learn from the mistakes of others and, frankly, I don't think Mike has come clean on this issue. After all, until we know which sin Mike committed, how can we know if we, too also committed it? The answer lies, as do many philisophical question with my late neighbor and great lady, Mae West, who said, "Of two sins I always pick the one I haven't tried." Pithy. To the point. Really, Miss West and H.L. Mencken are THE prime philosophers of the early 20th century and therefore their commentary must be accepted as valid. I'll never forget going down to the garage at the Ravenswood, circa 1964, and she said to me, "Okay, kid, keep hittin' the books. Edjacashun never hurt anyone." Interesting to recall that at her death, her estate was many, many times that of Joan Crawford or Bette Davis. And she hadn't done anything in years except be quoted. (I overlook "Myra Breckenridge" as any good friend would do.)

[MrCanary (imported)]

I realized I must have committed the sin which Mike discussed.

But Mike might have "talked about it" rather than engage in a discussion.

But who cares how Mike committed his sin

Mike did not commit the sin.

[cheetaking243 (imported)]

While I'm a total grammar Nazi when it comes to spelling and word usage, (For God's sake, everyone in my entire generation, I'm SICK of you all constantly using "your" and "you're" improperly, and you also suck at "it's" and "its," and "there" "their" and "they're." How many times did our teachers mention this in school, and exactly how many times did you not give a s***? Get it right!) I tend to personally use a more poetic flow when it comes to sentence structure. The whole preposition thing does not bother me one bit, because it's just what sounds better. When I write, I want my writing to flow, and I use the pacing and the emotional "feel" of it to dictate what the proper words and the proper structure is, and I tend to use periods and commas and the ellipsis more as an indicator of how long the reader is supposed to pause rather than necessarily what the proper usage is. And this is a deliberate choice. I know it's not gramattically correct, but it "sounds" correct in my head while I'm thinking about it, and I believe it makes the meaning of my writing more clear. I also purposefully use sentence fragments a lot as a means of adding emphasis, of creating a sudden blunt pause that isolates the words contained in it, and makes them feel more impactful.

So, yeah, in regards to the whole preposition thing, I really don't care. It's how people talk, and it's what sounds more correct even if it technically isn't. So to me, it's not an "error" per se, unlike misspellings and the like, which are blatant errors where the writer intended to say something else but wrote it wrong. But if the meaning is clear and consistent, and it "feels" right, and it conveys the emotional feelings that it was meaning to, that's fine with me. Those are the things that I care about in writing. (And I have used a LOT of sentence-ending prepositions in this very reply, but again, that's just how I write. I want it to sound like I, an average everyday human being, is saying these things. When I write using "proper" sentence structure, it doesn't feel like my writing anymore, it feels like the writing of some college professor that I don't know.)

[calmeilles (imported)]

"This is the kind of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put."

— Winston Churchill.

Authority enough for me.

Matthew