Ending a sentence with a preposition.

[curious_guy (imported)]

I use the grammar checker in WordPerfect. It says I should change this:

I realized that I must have committed the sin Mike talked about.

To this:

I realized that I must have committed the sin about which Mike talked.

I think the grammar checker's suggestion is ATROCIOUS.

I am fairly sure that, many years ago, I read that the only reason that some people think it is wrong to end a sentence with a preposition, is that in Latin is that in Latin it is impossible to end a sentence with a preposition. What do you think?

[Losethem (imported)]

I think there is too much you worry about.

Yes, tongue in cheek.

[Slammr (imported)]

I use the grammar checker in WordPerfect. It says I should change this:

I realized that I must have committed the sin Mike talked about.

To this:

I realized that I must have committed the sin about which Mike talked.

I think the grammar checker's suggestion is ATROCIOUS.

I am fairly sure that, many years ago, I read that the only reason that some people think it is wrong to end a sentence with a preposition, is that in Latin is that in Latin it is impossible to end a sentence with a preposition. What do you think?

Let's face it: proper or not, we all end sentences with prepositions, and it's a matter of what you want when you write, absolutely correct grammar or sentences that correspond to what we hear every day.

It also depends upon whose point of view or in whose voice you are writing. If I'm writing using the voice of a kid, I'm certainly not worrying about using proper grammar. What kid does?

It all depends upon for whom you're writing. If you're writing a text book, you probably want to use proper grammar. If you're writing for the Archive, you probably want to write using a more conversational tone.

[ClassyBitch (imported)]

Good analysis by all. It reminds me of a stuff-shirt joke:

Minnesota kid does well in high school and gets to Harvard on full scholarship. He is walking around campus, disoriented, he asks a professor-looking type with a tweed jacket for some help,

"Sir, where's the library at?"

The professor scolds the midwestern freshman,

"Son, you are obviously a country bumpkin because at Harvard University we do not end our sentences with prepositions."

The freshman then rephrases to make the correction,

"Where's the library at, asshole?"

[transward (imported)]

http://www.yourdictionary.com/grammar-r ... ition.html

Is Ending a Sentence with a Preposition Ever Acceptable?

At one time, schoolchildren were taught that a sentence should never end with a preposition. However, this is a philosophy actually associated with Latin grammar. While many aspects of Latin have made their way into the English language, this particular grammar rule is not suited for modern English usage.

There are times when trying to avoid ending a sentence with a preposition creates unnecessary and awkward phrasing. For example, Winston Churchill once reportedly exclaimed, "That is the sort of thing up with which I will not put!" to mock someone who criticized him for ending a sentence with a preposition. Since the purpose of writing is to clearly communicate your thoughts and ideas, it’s perfectly accepta

ble to end a sentence with a preposition

if the alternative would create confusion.

However, it may still be worth revising your sentences to avoid ending them a preposition whenever possible if you wish to reduce the risk of controversy. Since there are still a number of people who believe ending a sentence with a preposition is incorrect, considering your audience’s thoughts on the issue is a wise idea—particularly when you’re trying to gain a new client or land an important job interview. For example, “Which department is she in?” could simply be rewritten to read as “She is in which department?” without influencing clarity or comprehension.

Transward

[DeaconBlues (imported)]

Oh my! WHAT A BUNCH OF BORING LOSERS WE ALL ARE! To have a serious and in depth discussion about such an insignificant thing as ending a sentence with a proposition, or a preposition, or whatever...

We covered this very same subject in an earilier thread:

http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthr ... t=sentence

Please do note, I do NOT exclude myself from the "boring loser" catagory, actually I am very proud of how delightfully boring my life is now.

[jab (imported)]

I was taught, by the retired Latin/Spanish teacher:

"Never use a preposition to end a sentence with."

Grand old lady.

[jab (imported)]

I use the grammar checker in WordPerfect. It says I should change this

That was your mistake. You should have used the grammer checker.

[gareth19 (imported)]

I use the grammar checker in WordPerfect. It says I should change this:

I realized that I must have committed the sin Mike talked about.

To this:

I realized that I must have committed the sin about which Mike talked.

I think the grammar checker's suggestion is ATROCIOUS.

I am fairly sure that, many years ago, I read that the only reason that some people think it is wrong to end a sentence with a preposition, is that in Latin is that in Latin it is impossible to end a sentence with a preposition. What do you think?

I think that such people know neither English nor Latin grammar. Pax vobiscum. [Peace be with you, which is good Latin and ends in a preposition]. Fowler and Fowler (Modern English Usage, Oxford University Press 1926 and many editions thereafter) observe that "It was once a cherished superstition that prepositions must be kept true to their name..." He then quotes Sir Frances Bacon's They are the fittest timber to make politics of.

The greatest danger to the English language is the herd of semi-literate self-appointed experts, whose "reading" is a perpetual witchhunt for split infinitives, sentences ending with prepositions, and a host of other petty rules by which they successfully avoid the only true test of style and grammar, the degree to which the sentence is made intelligible and rendered sonorous.

[YourPhriendlyAuthor (imported)]

I use the grammar checker in WordPerfect. It says I should change this:

I realized that I must have committed the sin Mike talked about.

To this:

I realized that I must have committed the sin about which Mike talked.

I think the grammar checker's suggestion is ATROCIOUS.

I am fairly sure that, many years ago, I read that the only reason that some people think it is wrong to end a sentence with a preposition, is that in Latin is that in Latin it is impossible to end a sentence with a preposition. What do you think?

curious_guy,

I'd put it, "I realized that I fucked up", but that's just me...

Rules of grammar should be followed as guidelines, but *not* so slavishly that your prose trips all over itself trying to be 'correct'.

When you first start writing, it's a good idea to adhere to proper grammar, just so you learn good writing habits. Once you've progressed - and, more than anything else, found your voice as an author - you can use what you know, but at the same time, the *ultimate* criteria is what feels right to YOU!

So, of the two examples you gave, which one feels right?

Or is there a way to write it that works even *better* for what you want to say?

-YPA