Taking the Plunge.....Again

[plix (imported)]

Jesus: Thanks so much for taking the time to do that! I will send you a PM so I can take a look at that article. As far as exercise goes, yes - I definitely need to add something a little more strenuous to the mix! I am planning on looking into joining a gym, which will also be good for rainy days or winter days that are just a little too cold.

Begoneboy: I definitely know the feeling of having your mind running on a different planet! Great conversation is awesome. Electrical engineering is pretty impressive! I bet you did some wonderful things with that career.

Am I scared? Very. But apparently not scared enough to reverse course. I still plan to proceed with taking E once I finally have my hands on some.

[fhunter]

Am I scared? Very. But apparently not scared enough to reverse course. I still plan to proceed with taking E once I finally have my hands on some.

I never planned to write about that part of my experince, but well...

I was on estrogen for about 4.5 months or so (it was this year). For the background on this and how it happened.. it goes like this: I was on androcur in 2015 (till january 2016, about 7 months). After stopping, it was kind of a rollercoaster ride (I would not go over it, but I was a big mess for some time )...

After that - summer was okay, but as things progressed into autumn/winter 2016-2017, I ended up in a rather dark place, psychologically speaking (moods/motivation/low energy/etc). There were multiple reasons for that, some signs pointed to the lack of testosterone/low testosterone levels. Local news did not help too .

At some point around late December 2016 I started estrogen. (progynova pills, 2mg/day).

It did help with the moods, energy (and with general well-being too). I stopped due to "hmm, puffy nipples, ok. it's okay, it feels nice... Ô_Ô I've got breasts??!!?!?!??!". (this happened gradually over some time, and at some point I realized I had a lot more than it looked like). So yes, the reasons were similar - potential social issues... The general effects I definitely liked.

So our experiences are close in that.

PS. I am sorry for hijacking this thread.

[Begoneboy (imported)]

I never planned to write about that part of my experince, but well...

I was on estrogen for about 4.5 months or so (it was this year). For the background on this and how it happened.. it goes like this: I was on androcur in 2015 (till january 2016, about 7 months). After stopping, it was kind of a rollercoaster ride (I would not go over it, but I was a big mess for some time )...

After that - summer was okay, but as things progressed into autumn/winter 2016-2017, I ended up in a rather dark place, psychologically speaking (moods/motivation/low energy/etc). There were multiple reasons for that, some signs pointed to the lack of testosterone/low testosterone levels. Local news did not help too .

At some point around late December 2016 I started estrogen. (progynova pills, 2mg/day).

It did help with the moods, energy (and with general well-being too). I stopped due to "hmm, puffy nipples, ok. it's okay, it feels nice... Ô_Ô I've got breasts??!!?!?!??!". (this happened gradually over some time, and at some point I realized I had a lot more than it looked like). So yes, the reasons were similar - potential social issues... The general effects I definitely liked.

So our experiences are close in that.

PS. I am sorry for hijacking this thread.

Don't think you hijacked anything. As this forum seems to be all about helping with better understanding and sharing. To be sure, we all have breasts. Both men and women. It's just a question of how large and how sensitive that differentiates between men and women. If you were looking to only achive some help getting out of a dark place perhaps it should be considered that your dose was a bit higher for the results you desired. Taking less than half the dose you took would not have demonstrated a rapid increase in breast size. Although it may have created some additional sensitivity. Early on so many years ago after surgery I had decided I needed some help with adjusting hormones. I couldn't convince myself to use that which I had delved so hard to eliminate. SO I began with a very small dose of estrogen in about .625 mg per day for more than a year with no signs of breast growth or tenderness of the nipples. I did however notice a great deal of calming and less anxiousness as well as a good deal more energy. So often in our desire for some form of positive result we overdose ourselves. I will admit that later I made a conscious decision that I desired to develop further down the road of presenting more female which is when I went to different doses in order to accomplish that. Mind you that none of this was monitored by the physician. My results were obvious that small doses were helpful when I needed to adjust my mood swings and energy levels which I accomplished with very small doses. ANd at the same time when I decided to change the dynamics it was a simple action of increasing those doses.

It's all in what we want to accomplish

[fhunter]

-----8<------8<-----

If you were looking to only achive some help getting out of a dark place perhaps it should be considered that your dose was a bit higher for the results you desired. Taking less than half the dose you took would not have demonstrated a rapid increase in breast size. Although it may have created some additional sensitivity. Early on so many years ago after surgery I had decided I needed some help with adjusting hormones. I couldn't convince myself to use that which I had delved so hard to eliminate. SO I began with a very small dose of estrogen in about .625 mg per day for more than a year with no signs of breast growth or tenderness of the nipples. I did however notice a great deal of calming and less anxiousness as well as a good deal more energy. So often in our desire for some form of positive result we overdose ourselves. I will admit that later I made a conscious decision that I desired to develop further down the road of presenting more female which is when I went to different doses in order to accomplish that. Mind you that none of this was monitored by the physician. My results were obvious that small doses were helpful when I needed to adjust my mood swings and energy levels which I accomplished with very small doses. ANd at the same time when I decided to change the dynamics it was a simple action of increasing those doses.

It's all in what we want to accomplish

Sigh... What I used was what I found I could get here reliably, repeatably and with reasonable price (and over the counter, that matters, cause no, I was not monitored by a doctor). And I thought that the dose was low-ish.

Breast development... I am not sure how much I have currently, the size is less now, but I can still see it. Sensitivity went down too, after stopping estrogen. The size is probably under A-cup, but still slightly visible with stretchy t-shirt or something of that type. Nothing too out of the ordinary, thankfully.

[Begoneboy (imported)]

Sigh... What I used was what I found I could get here reliably, repeatably and with reasonable price (and over the counter, that matters, cause no, I was not monitored by a doctor). And I thought that the dose was low-ish.

Breast development... I am not sure how much I have currently, the size is less now, but I can still see it. Sensitivity went down too, after stopping estrogen. The size is probably under A-cup, but still slightly visible with stretchy t-shirt or something of that type. Nothing too out of the ordinary, thankfully.

yeah I have a great appreciation for easily accessible products. I looked on the in house pharmacy and they indeed cary what you took in .625 mg tablets. Perhaps you might consider that much lower dose in the future. And of course their listed price for the lower dose was considerably less money

[Tany Squirrel (imported)]

Plix:

The main problem about being human...is being human. There are no perfect constructs of what it is to be soley male or soley female. there are shades in between.

Life is about the discovery of self, and through that, the discovery of others. I appreciate you sharing your trials, joys and sorrows with us. Life , like problems is like a multifaceted gem. Each facet is a solution to the problem, but only one may truly fit . If we take the time (with a lot of patience) who we are will certainly be revealed to our selves. Introspection and retrospection are good tools, but should never be used to flog ourselves for any shortcomings that we feel we have about our perceived image of self. It may be months, weeks or maybe even years, but you will eventually come to balance.

It is with the acceptance of our true selves, that we find peace and that balance, the filling of a void that we have. It is about finding contentment.

Look in the mirror and ponder on your existence. Gaze thoughtfully at your own reflection. Are you happy with the image that you see? Yes? No? if no, why not?

Is it physical? Is it spiritual?

No one is perfect, or without flaw. It is looking into self and embracing who we are or who we perceive ourselves to be. One should not try to live up to the norm of what a particular gender is. It is ever-flowing, from one to the next from person to person. Like many colors of crayons in one box. They are all crayons, yet, they are all different shades. Embrace being alive, embrace being human. Society tries to fit us all into tidy little boxes, with pretty little labels on them to describe what it is in each box. "its unnatural for a man to cry"~ False. These are the things they try to teach little boys to "normalize" them in society to shield them from ridicule, but in reality it perpetuates the social "norms" Rinse and repeat, generationally.

There is no shame in being unique. There is no issue with being different. You, and only you can accept that, for yourself. Discover yourself, take the time. Go on your nature walks you like and revel yourself in the beauty around you. And as you do, revel in the creation you are, in all of your magnificence. There is no sliding scale of life that we should measure ourselves up to. It is fluid, just as gender can be.

Not only is it important to "stop and smell the roses" as the old adage goes, but also stop and admire their beauty. Do what makes you happy, what makes you content. When we fill ourselves with joys, there is no room for sorrows. When one is full of joy, they radiate their happiness like rays of sunlight.

[Begoneboy (imported)]

Jesus: Thanks so much for taking the time to do that! I will send you a PM so I can take a look at that article. As far as exercise goes, yes - I definitely need to add something a little more strenuous to the mix! I am planning on looking into joining a gym, which will also be good for rainy days or winter days that are just a little too cold.

Begoneboy: I definitely know the feeling of having your mind running on a different planet! Great conversation is awesome. Electrical engineering is pretty impressive! I bet you did some wonderful things with that career.

Am I scared? Very. But apparently not scared enough to reverse course. I still plan to proceed with taking E once I finally have my hands on some.

Yes Plix, I had a lot of fun in that career and made a few wonderful contributions to what will one day become the norm in society on the energy front. And as Tany Squirrel remarked, we are all unique if we'll allow ourselves to be so. Don't dwell on the opinions of others. Your opinions about yourself are all that should matter to you. While I may have bowed to social pressure of society having some need to place me into some bi-gender pigeon hole by presenting mostly female, in the end it hasn't changed my opinion of myself in my minds eye. I see me for me and not for others. Others see what/who they want to see. You'll get to exactly where you want to be. Just be you along the journey. After all, nobody is inhaling air into your lungs. Only you can do that!

[plix (imported)]

fhunter: No worries about the hijacking concerns! If it were me and it were someone else's blog, I'd probably start a new thread if I wanted to have an extended conversation about my own experiences just out of a desire to be kind and polite, but I think just the sharing of one's own experiences is to be expected in a blog and can even be very helpful to the person who the blog belongs to as well as others! So thanks so much for sharing! Having not enough hormones in your system (whether E or T) can definitely lead to dark places. I've been there - had a really bad crash earlier this year when I stopped taking T. Wishes to die, suicidal thoughts, and all! Yep, concern over breast growth is my number one worry when it comes to taking E, both for social reasons and because I'm worried that if I decide I want to look more masculine again in the future, I'll regret the breast development. I can't remember - how do you identify in terms of gender? I definitely understand the trials of self-medicating, though I'm hoping that will be changing as of Monday.

Tany Squirrel: Absolutely! As you'll see below, I still have a long way to go with accepting my true self though.

Begoneboy: I think that is one way in which we achieve immortality - leaving our mark on the world in a way that outlasts our lives. Your words are definitely true, but it's much harder for feminine males to be accepted by society than the other way around, especially when it comes to things like working with children and the like.

Well, my E arrived today. To E or not to E, that is the question

This last week has seen my gender identity shift violently back and forth. I've gone in a matter of hours from feeling very feminine and finding men attractive to feeling like someone who is definitely male, sexual thoughts about women included, and is going to end up freakishly feminized.

I'm not sure why gender has suddenly become such a big issue for me. Maybe because I'm getting E in my system from the DHEA? I know that when I am on T, I generally feel contentedly masculine and don't think about gender much, although I do realize how effeminate I am for a man and still feel very uncomfortable with the male gender role.

I've felt a bit moody at times as I try to sort this gender issue out. What am I? I wish I knew.

Maybe it's just that I don't have a woman in my life, some might say. Yep, maybe that's what it is. Maybe if I found someone to marry, I'd suddenly click with the big, strong protector role that I've never identified with. Maybe I'd suddenly be the guy who owns a set of tools and fixes everything around the house.

But you know what? I gave up the chance to be a traditional man with a traditional family 12 years ago when I had my balls cut off. Even if I could find a woman who could accept not only my feminine tendencies but also my much-less-than-masculine looks, I'd still have the issue of not being able to have biological children, so it wouldn't be a traditional family.

Or maybe it's that I've somehow screwed up my brain from the lack of consistent exposure to T all these years and the occasional exposure to E. If I had never been castrated, would my brain have sufficiently masculinized by now from all that T over the years to the point where I would feel just as manly as any other man? I'd certainly look as manly, that's for sure! Or maybe taking the E before messed things up? Many guys who are sensitive, gentle, or nerdy as boys grow up to be perfectly normal men, perhaps due to the effects of T on the brain over the years.

Yes, I know that I am definitely more feminine than I give myself credit for. But what does that make me other than just an effeminate male? I did some googling and found out that "effeminate straight man" is apparently a well-known term. But these men don't question their maleness. So why do I?

Others also know I am more feminine than I give myself credit for. I've had others tell

me that I should have been a woman,

and I've known that myself for years. There isn't a doubt in my mind that I'd choose female if I could go back and pick how I was born. But "should have been a woman" is very different from actually being a woman or even actually being

something other than male. I could cer

tainly just be a man who thinks he should have been a woman.

My mother used to tell me when my sister was growing up that I along with my brother would "screen" her potential dates when she reached dating age. Did I want her to date someone who would treat her well? Of course. But I didn't have any desire to be that male, brotherly protector I suppose a guy should have.

My sister was also raped when she was 12 by my cousin who was 14 at the time (he committed additional crimes with another underage girl later and is now a registered sex offender). Most guys, I suppose, would want to go and rip his head off if that were their sister. Am I upset about what he did? Of course! But do I feel that male rage to go and hurt him through some kind of protective/vengeful act? Not really.

I guess I've just never identified with the male role. But am I just someone who can't accept that he is an effeminate male and therefore thinks he needs to identify as something other than male? Or is there really more to it?

Chances are, if I were honest with myself, I'd find that I have both a masculine and feminine side to my gender identity, even if the latter really was only induced through castration and taking E. T seems to bring out the masculine in me, and E seems to bring out the feminine.

Socially speaking, there's no doubt that going back on T and feeling and looking like a man would be easiest. Not only was my body (especially my face) clearly meant to be male, but people who know me in my community know me as male, and most of them are the conservative type that would definitely not accept hearing that I was anything else. Also, I work at my job as a male, and it's not the kind of job where being anything other than what you were born as would be accepted. This is my big worry about going on E, that eventually people who know me will see changes. Indeed, just these few weeks on DHEA have brought about noticeable softening of my skin and face, and I think I may have gotten a few looks from strangers. That DHEA is so potent, and it's really surprising you can get it over the counter!

But guess what? I don't want to be masculine all the time! I like my feminine side, and I want to bring it out more. Am I crazy? Given what I said in the preceding paragraph, probably! I guess most people in my situation would go right back on T if they could kill off any feminine feelings and look the way that is easiest to have a normal life. But I'm not most people, and I never have been.

So social issues and worries that I might start feeling more masculine again somewhere down the line are a couple of concerns about taking E. But the other one is kind of the opposite. I'm worried I will start to feel a little too feminine and will

want to present as such. But there's no

t a chance I'd ever be accepted as anything other than male with my extremely masculine facial structure. I don't have tens of thousands of dollars for FFS, which I'd absolutely need. The only remote possibility might be my retirement account, but aside from being unwise, that would still be at least a decade away before I'd have enough in there. It could get stressful if I do start to feel more feminine but can't live that way!

I think that in order to feel at peace with taking E, I'm going to have put this gender issue to rest for the time being. It's stressing me out a lot thinking about it! Maybe I'm male, maybe I'm female, or maybe I'm something else. Who cares? I'm taking E because I've learned time and time again that I can't function with nothing in my system and that I don't want T. That's all I need to know for now!

[Tany Squirrel (imported)]

have you ever heard the term "Dual-Spirited"?, for most , it would be known as being Gender Fluid . Some don't associate with either gender in particular, and shift from time to time from one to the other.

Friends (True Friends), will accept you for your subtle or not-so-subtle shifts of your persona. Sometimes trying to "Fit in" one particular role may just not suit and become depressive and/or detrimental.

There is a term in biology :The word "allele" is a short form of allelomorph ("other form", a word coined by William Bateson[4]), which was used in the early days of genetics to describe variant forms of a gene detected as different phenotypes. It derives from the Greek prefix ἀλλήλ, allel, meaning "reciprocal" or "each other", which itself is related to the Greek adjective ἄλλος (allos; cognate with Latin "alius"), meaning "other". From Wikki

so perhaps you are neither male nor female specifically ,... perhaps you are an allellomorph . ( i had used that as a screen name for a time ' a little allelomorph' )

Of course, it need be said, your particular personas are looking for the complimenting hormones (when you feel male, your body craves T, and when female, it craves E), or is it the other way around?

Self discovery is often the hardest discovery that can happen. Magellen and Columbus had an easier time , i think, discovering new lands, than we have discovering ourselves.

Sometimes, past experiences can mold us, or shape us. Sometimes they make us the antithesis of who we want to be. It is often necessary to determine what is right for us, but looking within. Sometimes, others can point the way, but it is you, that has to live the life in your skin. Only you truly know what is best for you. the only thing one can advise, is be safe, in whatever you endeavor may be. *IF* you should feel depressed to the point of suicidal thoughts again, please, i beg you, reach out and talk to someone, either here or someone there you trust. No one should go this alone. There are people here who care for your well being.

Best Wishes,

Tanya Marie Squirrel

[plix (imported)]

Tany Squirrel

: Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts!

You have been very helpful.

Yes, I have considered that I might be some variety of genderfluid. It would definitely explain the hormonal shifts. Although in my case, a more apt term might be something like "lifefluid" since my constant shifts back and forth are by no means just limited to gender I wouldn't worry too much about the suicidal thoughts - I'm sure now that was mostly just a result of crashing T levels!

For me at least, the lack of any cross gender feelings in childhood, the lack of any discomfort during puberty, and the fact that, at least when on T, I was attracted pretty much exclusively to females, eliminates any chance of me being full-blown transsexual. I think that what I am dealing with is being a male with a strong feminine side he was very much in touch with and that he got even more in touch with as a result of castration and taking E.

There was an article I read a long time ago that I wish I could find again! It was about something related to Asperger's (which I'm virtually positive I have, even though I'll probably never be diagnosed since pursing that sort of thing is expensive) and how that can cause cross gender feelings to sometimes be masked during childhood. It seemed to be saying that because of the presence of Asperger's, Aspie kids who are transgender might not recognize that a problem with gender identity is what they are feeling when they are growing up.

But even if I just didn't recognize any cross gender feelings, there is still the fact that I was attracted to females when on T. This might be surprising - and it certainly is to me - given my childhood history (wanting a girl's shirt at a young age - though to be fair, that was a one-time incident as far as I know, thinking jewelry was pretty, getting along better with girls, etc.) and my grandmother saying "I knew it all along. The signs were definitely there." when I came out to her as "trans." I remember thinking to myself at one point when I was growing up how surprising it was that I wasn't gay.

But then again, there was the time several years ago when I was at a strip club getting a lap dance. I was on T at the time. What is surprising is that I did not get anywhere near the level of enjoyment I expected I would from that sort of thing. There was absolutely no activity downstairs during the lap dance. None whatsoever! To be fair, I was also drunk at the time - not completely wasted, but definitely drunk. The alcohol may have played a role, but a friend who I told this story to told me there should have been "at least a twitch" down there even if I was drunk. I also didn't mentally enjoy it as much as I expected I would. Then there was the way she smelled - while it wasn't revolting, I didn't enjoy her smell as much as a straight man might be expected to. It was just kind of weird, I thought. This same friend told me he "likes the way women smell."

Then there is the lack of interest in porn and the lack of attraction to breasts. Porn has never done much for me, and boobs in particular just have never interested me. So weird!

But like I said, the fact that I was attracted to females growing up and when on T is clear, and I have absolutely no doubt about it. I got erections when looking at females and almost never had sexual thoughts about males (and when I did, I was able to dismiss the possibility that there was any genuine interest).

Now, do I find some men attractive when on E and imagine what it might be like to have a man treat me like a woman? Of course! Do I sometimes even have what I think might be a female-like sexual response - where I look at a guy and get a sort of warm and pleasant feeling throughout my body? Yes! But those things aren't consistent enough for me to be sure about any of it.

The personality changes I experience on E are just STUNNING. It's like night and day. Anyone who knew the me on T would be very surprised to see how different I am on E. I'm surprising even myself sometimes with the way I talk, how much I use my hands, and how much easier it is for me to talk to strangers. It's very nice - I absolutely love my personality on E! It's definitely far better than that guy on T who only seemed to know two responses to what people said to him - "Yeah" and a short chuckle.

But you know, even though I like the me on E better, I still don't think I'm female (for the reasons given above). I still get very sad sometimes when I think about the me I've forever lost - the guy who was permanently and irreversibly killed when I had my surgery all those years ago. The guy who by now probably would have been married and may have even had a family. Sometimes I even want to cry when I think about what I've lost.

Love, I suppose, is something we all desire. Even though I'm a man on E, I still want that sense of companionship from someone. The chances that I'll find a woman who would take a feminized man like me are pretty slim. Could I love a man romantically? I don't know, and I don't think I've been doing this long enough to find out. But gay men want men who look like men, and straight men want women. So my chances in that direction aren't all that hot either.

I'm sure there has to be someone out there who is just as non-traditional as I am and would love me for me. But how do I find this person? Somehow I don't think traditional dating methods are going to bring me much luck.

I think that is mostly what the source of stress surrounding all this gender and sexuality stuff is for me. The conflict between thinking about what I have forever lost and can never get back and how excited I am to discover this new me. At 32 years old, my time of prime sensitivity to T is past - even if I went back on T and stayed on it for the rest of my life, I'll never look or be as masculine as I would have if I had never been cut. So that guy is someone who can never be. But the me I am now and am still discovering is someone who can be.

Just like others have told me, that's what I need to focus on. Being me. Not worrying and stressing all the time about what my gender identity is or who I am attracted to. Because that's what I've been doing. Who cares? If I'm a man taking E, I'm a man taking E, and that's all there is to it. If E makes me a better person and brings out the true bubbly nature of my personality that has been hidden all these years under a flat affect, then what's wrong with that?

Basically, I think what I need is a life! I am focusing too much on this gender stuff, and it's time to remember there is a life outside of gender issues. I need to start focusing on other interests so that I'm not thinking about this stuff all the time. One of the ways I might do that could involve visiting and posting here less often. I'll still post from time to time of course, but I might try to do it less often so that these issues don't get triggered.

I'm finding this intense desire lately to socialize and be around other people. Maybe I'm an extrovert after all and just didn't know it? I highly doubt it! Still, I think I need to make some new friends to do fun, adventurous stuff with and start enjoying life!