The Decision in Perry v Schwarzennegger is for the Plaintiffs

A-1 (imported)
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Re: The Decision in Perry v Schwarzennegger is for the Plaintiffs

Post by A-1 (imported) »

Riverwind (imported) wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:57 pm No not me, I agree with you.

The way this decision was worded it makes it hard for the next two courts to turn it over. This could be the start of something big, Christians will be pissed, OH WELL what else is new but the rest of us cheer the outcome.

River

CHRISTIANS, River, who have a problem with this are just a bunch of nosy old PRUDES (giving 'good Christians a bad name) who need to mind their own fucking business...

(Yes, that is if they actually do FUCK, otherwise, they no-A play-1 da game, they NO-A make-A 'th RULES...)

(being overdosed on a Viagra pill or similar should disqualify them, also.)

😄
Dave (imported)
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Re: The Decision in Perry v Schwarzennegger is for the Plaintiffs

Post by Dave (imported) »

The stay of the Judge's order in this case will expire on August 18th unless the 9th Circuit Court issues a new TRO.

One of the problems with the appeal is that the State of California has chosen not to appeal and the opponents of gay marriage need to establish standing to take the appeal. Typically only the litigants have standing to take the appeal. Also, a Temporary Restraining Order requires that the appellant (or plaintiff) show some harm to them or to society by the action that they want stopped or prevented.
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Re: The Decision in Perry v Schwarzennegger is for the Plaintiffs

Post by Riverwind (imported) »

This is priceless, Prop 8 goes down in defeat flaming all the way. The Governor hated the law and the State Attorney General hated the law, he is running for Governor in November so why should they appeal it?

So the question is when do Gay Marriages start again?

And

What is the next move for the right wing of stupid?

Wait, stupid would indicate they know better, there just ignorant.

River
Dave (imported)
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Re: The Decision in Perry v Schwarzennegger is for the Plaintiffs

Post by Dave (imported) »

...
Riverwind (imported) wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:30 pm So the question is when do Gay Marriages start again?

...

The 1 week delay in lifting stay makes sense. If this does go up to appeal within the week and is stayed, there is no reason to have a week of marriages (thousands of them) that may ultimately be invalidated. That doesn't make sense.

If this doesn't go to appeal in a week then fuck you guys in the opposition. The legal system appreciates rewards promptness and not delay. Why should a court be tied up with appeals that can't be prompt and meet deadlines? Courts are busy enough without that kind of dithering.

However, if no one appeals and no one has standing to challenge the decision (since CA isn't) then in a week the DEcision goes into effect.

If someone has standing, then the Appeals Court will have control of the situation.

One last possibility, someone has standing and the 9th circuit rejects their appeal. The Associate Justice with the first look at this is Justice Kennedy and the decision quotes Justice Kennedy several times.

Now do you see the brilliance of the decision?
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Re: The Decision in Perry v Schwarzennegger is for the Plaintiffs

Post by gareth19 (imported) »

Dave (imported) wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:54 pm And how would that be different from saying that blacks and whites cannot marry until 65? That was a prevailing view 50 or 60 years ago. Or how about white parents adopting oriental kids? The real ending of "South Pacific" was that the Balinese girl was left alone and pregnant by the death of her lover. That spoils the happy ending of the story, though.

Why don't you start a thread on the EA asking if "gay" was ever a phase or an option? I somehow think you know what the results would be.

Of course I know what the results will be. I was playing Devil's Advocate. No one ever suggested that interracial affairs were the result of immaturity and no state ever imposed different age limits on races; they do impose age restrictions based on sex with the commonly held view that girls mature sooner and that males remain emotionally immature longer. You may dispute these concepts, but they are out there.

Although it is becoming more and more evident that being gay isn't a choice, phase, decision or any other malleable feature but an innate characteristic (but look how long it took to convince the majority of the population that being left-handed wasn't a bad habit or perverse choice but simply a innate characteristic), there are still people who wonder whether14 to 16 year olds really know that they are gay. Go to youtube and look at most of the teen coming out stories. Almost all of them have been asked by anxious parents if they were sure they were gay (though of course no one ever asks a horny straight 14 year old caught masturbating to Playboy if he is sure he is straight). Given this siuation, it is highly probable that some sort of age restriction requiring gays to be older and more mature before being allowed to ruin their lives with a same-sex marriage could pass legal muster. It is the kind of specious, pseudolegal argument that ignores actual legal precedent and is in reality special pleading for a preconceived prejudice that is the hallmark of Scalia's alleged "legal brilliance." I regard Scalia as a first-rate sophist masquerading as a third-rate jurist, but the rest of the country is in awe of his specious reasoning, and some version of this bullshit (ok maybe not the age limit of 65 are guys still gay at 65 and would they have sex?) might fly.
A-1 (imported)
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Re: The Decision in Perry v Schwarzennegger is for the Plaintiffs

Post by A-1 (imported) »

Regarding Gay, Lesbian, Straight and Bisexuality and sexual behaviors in general...

Pavlov once had a dog that salivated at the sound of a bell.

In our society we provide the opportunity for same sex encounters at an early age but not opposite sex encounters. If we learn to associate getting erections at the sight erect penises and sex with the tight sphincter of the rectum and having sex with those of the same gender then might we be a lot like Pavlov's dog?

If you like anal sex it might not mean that you are Gay. It might just mean that you have not found the right woman who likes anal sex. (Admittedly, they ARE rare, indeed, but a GEM when you find them!)

SO can anybody out there tell me if a woman's rectum feels different than a man's when you are having intercourse? Oh??? HOW DO YOU KNOW?

People are a lot like dogs, but especially men more than women. When men are in a hormonal frenzy or high on sex phenomes they will just about fuck any hole that will hold still long enough.

...Male. female. sheep. whatever. ...makes no difference to them.

Add to that hormonal frenzy a Disgust with a certain few females that were critical in these mens' lives and their hideous female actions and poor treatment of men and you will have a flaming Gay man who would not fuck a woman and whose erection wilts at the thought.

Of course there ARE men who CANNOT fuck a woman who DOES not mistreat them. Likewise, there are WOMEN who love men who mistreat them but hate men who treat them well.

Humanity runs the WHOLE GAMBIT...

Pavlov's dog salivated at the sound of a bell. The dog had to be susceptable to the training, but the training played a part.

In ALL genetic predispositions environment plays a part. IF GAYNESS OWES TO GENETICS THERE WILL ALSO BE A ENVIRONMENTAL COMPONENT. WE CAN ARGUE ABOUT THE POWER OF THE COMPONENT, BUT WE CANNOT DENY ITS EXISTENCE.

If there IS an environmental component it is STILL not a Gay man or woman's fault OR CHOICE that he/she is Gay. It is the LUCK of the genetic draw AND the influence of environment.

IF his gayness comes out at a later age as a preference, perhaps it is because he chose a controlling BITCH to fuck as a young person. Or, perhaps, because he found it easier to be sexually gratified with those of the same sex.

We just DO NOT know for sure, but we are sure why WE have our sexuality and WE KNOW what we want. WE are under no obligation to change. People who try to change us are manipulating, controlling ASSHOLES! But some people love manipulating, controlling ASSHOLES. There is jut no logical way to account for these preferences...so you SHOULD not try.

Furthermore, since WE are what we are, and modeled behaviors are difficult if not impossible to change, so our sexual preferences should NOT be expected to change either, unless we WANT them to.

It must be an individuals decision what he or she prefers sexually. Most never have the COURAGE to try something new, and prefer to retain their established behaviors. HOWEVER, TO SAY THAT to know one's preference one has to try different things, is an OXYMORON. IF you feel that you know, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO TRY SHIT!

This idea of once you are Gay you have to stay, Or, once you tried a Gay encounter, you were never "REALLY" straight OR, even if you cannot bear to think of a Gay or Straight encounter that you must be one way or another is utter nonsense that is accepted like folklore as 'common sense".

In reality it is more like an Urban Legend. It is STUPID and it is designed as a way for society to control sexuality.

In many ways society SUCKS, but that does NOT make it bad, just interesting...

I have had a LOT of pleasure from those who "SUCK".... 😄
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Re: The Decision in Perry v Schwarzennegger is for the Plaintiffs

Post by jemagirl (imported) »

I strongly suspect that environmental factors, ( beyond those of the womb ) have very little to do with sexual orientation. However, no matter what the cause of sexual orientation may actually be, ( be it heterosexual, bisexual, asexual or homosexual ) it can NOT serve as a rational basis for unequal treatment under the law. We are all citizens, and all worthy of all the benefits and responsibilities enshrined in our constitution.

Therefor I prefer that those of us who favor a more equitable situation regarding marriage and other civil rights... PLEASE step out of the arguments of causality and morality. These are after all nothing more than Red Herrings and Slippery Slopes, desperately tossed out by those who wish to preserve the status quo.
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Re: The Decision in Perry v Schwarzennegger is for the Plaintiffs

Post by JesusA (imported) »

Why California gay marriage ruling may not head to US Supreme Court

US District Judge Vaughn Walker, who invalidated Proposition 8, doubts the proponents of California's gay marriage ban have any standing to appeal his ruling.

By Andrew Heining

The Christian Science Monitor

August 13, 2010

Los Angeles

Do proponents of Proposition 8, California’s gay-marriage ban, have any legal standing to appeal last week’s federal court ruling declaring it unconstitutional?

US District Judge Vaughn Walker doubts it.

When Judge Walker decided Thursday to lift a temporary stay on his Aug. 4 decision that invalidated Proposition 8, he suggested that the legal advocates of the voter-approved gay-marriage ban did not meet the legal standards to appeal their case to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.

Walker said they needed the state government’s support, which they don’t have, and to demonstrate that legalizing gay marriage will lead to immediate harm even though 18,000 same-sex couples are already legally married in California.

“As it appears at least doubtful that proponents will be able to proceed with their appeal without a state defendant, it remains unclear whether the court of appeals will be able to reach the merits of proponents’ appeal,” Walker wrote in his ruling Thursday that lifted the stay on his earlier decision.

Nonetheless, Proposition 8 supporters have already appealed both of Walker’s rulings – his decision on the constitutionality of the gay-marriage ban and the more recent ruling lifting the stay and clearing the way for same-sex marriages to resume in California on Aug. 18.

But if the appeals court agrees with Walker’s analysis of the legal standing of Proposition 8 proponents, this landmark case over a state gay-marriage ban, the first decided in a federal court, could end with his courtroom and dash hopes on both sides of the issue for having the US Supreme Court issue a definitive ruling on gay marriage.

Still, legal experts are unsure of how appellate courts – including the US Supreme Court – will come down on the "legal standing" issue and Proposition 8 backers are undeterred by Walker's dim view of their chances in higher courts.

"[We] are confident that the right of Americans to protect marriage in their state constitutions will ultimately be upheld," said Alliance Defense Fund Litigation Staff Counsel Jim Campbell in a statement. "It makes no sense to impose a radical change in marriage on the people of California before all appeals on their behalf are heard."

Brian Brown, president of The National Organization for Marriage, a major backer of national gay-marriage bans, says Walker’s insistence that proponents show the "specific harm" they would suffer should same-sex marriage resume in California is off base.

"California proponents have particular interest and particular rights," Mr. Brown says. "One of the enumerated rights of proponents in [California's] state constitution is to have the ability to organize and pass an initiative. Just as the legislature has the right to pass a law, so do the people."

Why Imperial County was left out of case

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Attorney General Jerry Brown both declined to defend Proposition 8.

Absent other state government defense for the statute, Imperial County, Calif., filed to intervene. Two-thirds of voters in the county east of San Diego backed Proposition 8, and its board of supervisors voted in 2009 to intervene on its behalf. Walker denied that motion.

Brown says Walker stacked the deck in favor of same-sex marriage supporters by allowing San Francisco to intervene in the case but not Imperial County.

Accompanying his decision striking down Proposition 8, Walker wrote: "California law provides no basis for Imperial County’s assertion that it has an interest in California marriage law, much less that its interests here are not adequately represented by an existing California defendant.”

Imperial County has appealed the decision, but legal experts, including University of Southern California law professor David Cruz, say the county may run into more hurdles.

"Given that Prop 8 is a state constitutional amendment, it's not clear that a mere county-level government would be enough," says Professor Cruz. And even if it is allowed to join the case as an intervener, the county would need to prove that it stood to be adversely affected by the repeal of Proposition 8, he says.

Baker v. Nelson

Brown says Walker's personal bias will be evident to the Ninth Circuit when it considers the appeal of Protect Marriage. Particularly egregious, he says, is that Walker ignored the most obvious precedent, Baker v. Nelson, a Minnesota Supreme Court case dismissed by the US Supreme Court in 1972.

In that case, the high court dismissed the appeal of a same-sex couple who argued that by forbidding them to marry, the state's laws violated their constitutional rights to privacy, due process, and equal protection clauses. That dismissal is seen by some as a decision on the merits of the case because it came through mandatory appellate review, and thus an endorsement of marriage as between one man and one woman.

"The district court did not confront the Supreme Court’s holding in Baker, binding authority from this Court, or any of the well established lines of authority opposed to its conclusions. It did not distinguish them. It did not explain why it believed they were wrongly decided. It did not even acknowledge their existence. It simply ignored them," wrote Proposition 8 backers in their filing with Ninth Circuit to request an indefinite stay of Walker's ruling until all appeals can be heard.

Cruz says neglecting to address Baker is not as black and white as Brown makes it sound.

"There are very different factual and legal backgrounds" between the two cases, Cruz says. "At the time Baker was decided, Supreme Court equal protection law was very different from as it stands today," he says.

"When the Supreme Court dismissed the appeal [in 1972], Minnesota didn't have anything resembling a domestic partnership law," he adds. "California had already extended rights of marriage to same-sex couples," he says, so the reason why Minnesota may not have allowed same-sex couples to marry is different than California's.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/20 ... reme-Court

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gareth19 (imported)
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Re: The Decision in Perry v Schwarzennegger is for the Plaintiffs

Post by gareth19 (imported) »

A-1 (imported) wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:38 pm Regarding Gay, Lesbian, Straight and Bisexuality and sexual behaviors in general...

Pavlov once had a dog that salivated at the sound of a bell.

In our society we provide the opportunity for same sex encounters at an early age but not opposite sex encounters. If we learn to associate getting erections at the sight erect penises and sex with the tight sphincter of the rectum and having sex with those of the same gender then might we be a lot like Pavlov's dog?
But the dog originally salivated at the arrival of food, a natural physiological reaction. Pavlov conditioned the dog by associating the irrelevant stimulus (the bell) to the relevant stimulus (food!), The idea that Skinnerian conditioning can be used on humans is the basis of reparative (ex-gay) therapy, and there is overwhelming evidence that it doesn't work. No gay man who has been through this shit ever developed a liking for pussy, just an aversion to cock. If the environment were as powerful an influence as you guess, the distribution of gays and straight should be roughly equal because there are as many horny females available as horny males, but the plain fact is that gays are a decided minority.

In fact, despite attempts at coed education, preadolescents segregate themselves after the age of about three into homosexual peer groups (boys play cowboys and baseball preferentially with other boys and actively reject intrusion by females even if they can swing a bat, shoot a gun, or climb a tree; girls shriek at the approach of males and want nothing to do with them). At puberty, the aversion to the opposite sex disappears for most and an intense interest develops. That this is age related should tell you that it is biologically, not environmentally controlled. Desmond Morris, [/]The Naked Male[/I] opines that in a minority of cases, the natural hormonal development is thwarted and with puberty instead of turning off the homosexual orientation it is intensified.

Morris associates this development with neoteny, the retention of childhood characteristics into adulthood, but it may simply reflect the complexity of human sexual response and a consequence in the delayed sexual maturation of humans required by their enormous brains. Most women are really not into biceps, abs, or shoulders; males are intensely interested in the physical development of other males. For straights this may be a process associated with maturity: interest in females' physical endowments for sex and males' physical development to size up potential rivals. In gays, the mechanism gets crosswired and instead of finding female anatomy erotic and male anatomy important for personal comparisons, the male anatomy is both used for personal assessment and for erotic stimulation.
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Re: The Decision in Perry v Schwarzennegger is for the Plaintiffs

Post by george2u2 (imported) »

Christians?

Christ never married, Never had children, and he took 12 boyfriends with him everywhere he went.

How can they say that they follow Christ, if they are married with children and without 12 boyfriends?

That is the Christ of the Big black book of lies know as the Bible?

All any preacher I ever met wanted was control of my life and my money.

Did God create man or did man create God?

If Man created God to explain his environment we have no worries. It's all a lie!
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