religion - general discussion

[loveableleopardy (imported)]

I was reading the thread, "It's true - we totally have the best religion." It was disappointing to see this shut down because there was some interesting conversation in there. I am new to the EA, but I also think that maybe there isn't enough conversation about non Eunuch related topics. Sure, this is the EA Message Board, so that should form the basis of many discussions, but this site is filled with open minded and wise people who can contribute entertaining views to a variety of areas.

Religion is a very sticky subject, and is especially so with me. I'd been an Atheist for most of my life (without ever thinking much about religion) before turning to Islam in 2008 (I am not religious now). So I am one of the so called free thinking humans who has turned to a quite illogical way of thinking (I have been quite hard on myself in this respect.....I have no problems being abused for turning that way......just go a little easy A-1 so that this thread stays open ).

It is not hard to understand how so many people have learned to believe in God and various religious beliefs over the years. Until fairly recently we didn't have much evidence to give a more plausible explanation (this does not excuse me) and of course many people have been forced into believing and still are. In the past there was great logic into believing that we were the centre of the universe and that it was a miracle that we were even here. In a way it is a miracle. We have to be a certain distance from the sun, with decent protection from our atmosphere, having an air without poisonous gases (most of our planets seem to have them), having water, etc. It is only not such a great miracle when we learned that there are more stars than grains of sand on Earth......or something like that.

About 50% of humans still believe in a monotheistic religion. But many of these people aren't encouraged to look outside their religion. Even with the advances in scientific knowledge the amount of believers remains fairly steady. But hardly anyone converts to religion these days because they decided to explore it and then thought that it made sense to them. People are born into religion or they marry into it. I planned to marry into it.

I believe that religion can be a positive to some people. It can also be a great negative. There are probably more people that are effected by it positively, but those who are effected by it negatively are effected by it in much greater ways, if that makes any sense.

People can be greatly driven in their decision making by religion. Just as they can by their sex drive/lonliness. My experiences with religion bought me to the view that my sex drive was a negative to me. By being a lonely, virgin, non alpha male with low self esteem, it left me slightly open to be turned into someone who I essentially wasn't. If I had the luxury of choice of numerous female partners then I wouldn't have been so desperate to fall into the trap that I did. My experiences have caused me (and some others) some pain, but they've forced me to learn quite a lot about religion while at the same time explore my own self further and humans in general. So I would say that the experience has been more of a positive than a negative.

Someone said to me that religion also existed to lessen lonliness. This is true. It's comforting to many people to believe that they have a God watching over them.

This is a bit of a ramble. Happy to create some more discussion about religion though, plus other things (like being driven by our cocks!) that can branch out from it.

[Dave (imported)]

Part of my reason for the "dislike" that thread inspired was because it was in the " Jokes, Links, Media & More" section of the board. The cartoon was cute but the commentary ranged well out of the light hearted history of that thread. For me, it wasn't so much of the discussion as the location.

But that's only me.

[A-1 (imported)]

gregrowlerson,

O.K., but on one condition,

You go to e-harmony, enroll and start dating again.

Like I told my daughters, You have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your Prince Charming. Then one of them confused a frog for a toad and ended up with WARTS...

But all of that aside, you are better off the way that YOU are and this ALPHA - BETA shit is nothing but pimp language.

Find you a good woman that does not have some religion up her ass so far that she wants to take it to bed so that it can sleep between the two of you...

O.K.?

Just remember, religion does mankind no good until AFTER they are dead. That is why so many terrorists want to go out in a flash to get to those 72 virgins...

[Riverwind (imported)]

I will let the thread ride for the time being, the minute it starts to go over the top it will be closed.

Just a fare warning, Keep it light and good natured and I will not push the RED button.

River

[loveableleopardy (imported)]

Thanks River for the leeway.

I am not as harsh as you on religion A-1, but thanks for your words of advice.

I certainly do plan on having a girlfriend by years end (actually that's a deal that I'll make with the EA right now......I'm shaking on it).

Yeah the alpha stuff does sound a bit like pimp language!

But at the same time I think there's some truth to it. As in, that women more so want the best man whereas men just want women (to some degree). I think it's an interesting thing to explore that women can only be happy with a certain percentage of men, and those who have to 'settle' end up shutting their men out straight away.

This stuff is not black and white though. I am writing in a too stereotypical way, but I just think that this sort of thing is intriguing.

For example I have a couple of male friends who are quite unattractive. As far as I know both have rarely had any interest from girls (one of them has a reasonable job and personaility). I wouldn't say this to them, but I reckon they'd be better off without their sex drive. Again, it's just something to discuss.

I am not particularly attractive, but fortunately I'm better off in the physical stakes then those guys. So I can end up in a decent relationship (touch wood). My problems with relationships stemmed not from religion, but from a lack of confidence before that. This is a long story, but in brief I had bowell problems in my late teens. I had/have a bit of a crooked spine, but this was also just due to being lactose intolerant. Anyway, my poor eating habits (for my body) made year 12 hell for me and I convinced myself that I was going to die. I gradually grew out of that, but by which time I was way behind the eight ball as far as relating to women goes. I didn't engage at all properly with any women until I was 24 (I am 29 now). It was all a snowball effect. Women dig confidence. But you can't pretend to be confident if you aren't. At least I can't. I'm quite honest. What has tended to happen is that some women have found me interesting (some might even say charming) but placed me on their friends ladder. Do you find that to be just more alpha literary rubbish?!

I have always been the nice guy which doesn't bode too well. Nevertheless I did ask two work 'friends' out (I can hear people saying don't mix work with pleasure!). Both rejected me. At least one I am sure regrets this (though I don't blame her.....she didn't know me that well then). In actual fact I don't blame anyone for not wanting to be with me. That has simply led to my view that I'm better off without my sex drive. I also became highly negative towards my own feelings of women, in the sense that I questioned strongly that it maybe was JUST sex that was driving any of my interest (hence if I removed my sex drive I could prove otherwise). This was also driven by a (great) woman who always insisted that men ONLY wanted sex from women.....she is very distrusting of men because of her past experiences which was very frustrating for me. But anyway, I am less cynical about my feelings for women again now and do believe that I can genuinely love them.

My conversion to Islam was a major part of my cynicism towards my own feelings of women too, because I had no real connection with that woman......it was just an attraction thing......as well as being a thus far forever single.

There are some decent aspects to Islam, but yes, it is a very dangerous religion, clearly the most dangerous. I've even analysed the potential that I had to go down some really dark roads and it wasn't as far fetched as some might think (even though people think I'm a good person!). I did get pretty deep into believing. If I did marry her and then she cheated on me (let's say with a fellow Australian) then it's likely that I would have turned even more to Islam (Allah) for answers. If I'd got involved with the wrong people then it's easy to see that I could view everyone else as being wrong and even become a hater of Australian culture and end up blowing myself up in my own country along with hundreds of others. Sure, I was a LONG way off anything like that, but I can see how these things can happen.

The reward of a great deal of sex in heaven (as delusional as it is) has a big say in the power that Christianity and Islam has over many men, even though most would be unaware of it.

[A-1 (imported)]

DEAR gregrowlerson,

Religion is a PERSONAL relationship with GOD. Regardless of what others say, you should act on your own conscience, and ONLY on your own conscience. DO NOT LET PEOPLE JUDGE YOU BECAUSE THEY JUST WANT TO CONTROL YOU. Control yourself, and care for yourself, or you will NEVER be able to really care for another.

Get used to REJECTION when asking women out. The more you do it, the better you get at it. Timing is not something, it is the ONLY thing. Do not be harassing, but be creative, and let her know you feel attracted to her. Turn your attraction into a complement and NOT a threat.

ALSO, There IS something that can be said for being a "Shallow Hal" type. (Rent the video)

Many times, the most BEAUTIFUL women lack for companionship because men WILL NOT ask them out out of self-conscious fear of rejection. Remember, these really good looking women are NOT looking for sex OR male HUNKS, having lost their virginity immediately after puberty.

What they are looking for is somebody who looks beyond their beauty for their mind. This is where a man has to get creative. It is the KEY to Alpha behaviors and it is how ugly men get good looking women. Remember, sooner or later, EVERY woman wants a man, or a reasonable facsimile. Gender dysphoria notwithstanding... It is YOUR job to make yourself available for that moment.

Remember, if you follow this advice, and it DOES actually work out to a life-long mate for you, when she gets old, and the body goes, at least you will have a friend and a companion that you can talk to and enjoy being with...not JUST for sex, either.

Yes, I am old and cynical. But it is not JUST about religion. It is about life. But I still believe in people. I just don't expect as much as I did when I was young. It is a defense mechanism, you see. That way seldom am I disappointed.

Remember, you were given a sex drive for a reason. It is like owning a gun. It can be POWERFUL, it can get a lot of 'meat' for you. But if you take up the life of a gun slinger, you will soon die the death of one.

Remember, also, that a WOMAN who enjoys sex is a rare jewel, indeed! Don't start comparing her to your mother or sister. You want a LOVER, COMPANION and FRIEND, not another mother or sister, capish?

[moi621 (imported)]

Religion keeps one out of touch with, GOD.

Moi

Paraphrasing Tolstoy.

[loveableleopardy (imported)]

Thanks A-1 for the meaningful message.

The religion thing was not so much others wanting to control me (though admittedly I HAD to convert to have a chance in the relationship), but my willingness to just look for anything at that time to provide me with meaning. To have my world make sense, if that makes any sense. I can be difficult to understand. On one hand I am very desperate (certainly in my attempts to be with women), but I will not just do anything to apease them (again a major contradiction in that I converted) in the sense that I will tell them even about my feelings for other women......not to make them jealous, but to be truthful. An issue with men and women (if you are like me and want and try to be ridiculously honest with them) is that women tend to want just one man (at a time) but men can have feelings (emotionally as well as physically) for more than one women at a time. In a sense you have to lie, and act as if your woman is the only woman in the world, at least in the sense that you don't have any feelings for anyone else. And I am not the type that would cheat (at least go out of my way too) either and women know this. Even though women like to say, "just tell me the truth," from my experiences (or lack thereof) they seem to insist, "always tell me the necessary bent truths to prove that you love me." To some extent I agree with the latter now. I've been too honest previously just to satisfy my own simple guilt for being a man. It's a guilt that I'm getting over.

I am very emotionally needy but at the same time quite introverted (in my behaviour....I can easily open up to people these days) and can do independent things like go on a contiki tour on my own (there were of course others on the bus!) and go overseas on my own. I don't NEED to be around people all the time.

But I don't BS about really needing another human (partner). Women hate to be aware that you need them, but I think it's true of all humans that we need companionship to be truly happy (at least to have a chance of that).

I don't see dating as being that big a problem for me now (though I will have to prove this). I will probably be quite relaxed because there are a couple of women who I have loved a great deal. It will be very sad for me that I will not have ended up with either of them. As such, I won't be particularly excited to date anyone else (though I know I could grow to love others). I don't see that as making me happy, but it will probably be better than staying single.

My favourite woman ever is ridiculously good looking, but her mind even far exceeds that. She is too incredible to describe properly. Oh yeah. One of a kind! The other woman is not so good looking but has a great personality and kind soul. I actually long 'deluded' myself into believing/insisting that I loved her more because I told myself that it was more GENUINE (because she was not great looking). So yes, the beautiful woman's beauty has been a curse. I never thought she could feel this way for me and I never asked her out and found this out when it was too late.

Apologies for my rambling.

What does anyone think about my following theory? That women in some way need sex more than men for their own self esteem because throughout generations women have only been allowed to value themselves for their bodies (or only be able to make money by selling themselves for sex). This is changing now for the better, but the human brain takes time to evolve to its real circumstances. We still have the amygdala (makes us fear) that controls us greatly even though our day to day existence is generally no longer a case of basic survival. Maybe this can be a similar thing with women and what I would term their needing to have their vag validated.

On the one hand they need this validation, but this sex drive "power" also creates distrust, by the potential for cheating with other women (who straight men do NATURALLY want to fuck). By initial desire to end my sex drive was based around the not so good looking woman because she doesn't trust men, and I don't really care about a sexual relationship. But what if this made the relationship impossible anyway because I couldn't "validate" her as a woman?

I have always wanted to have a partner who I could still connect great with when I'm 70.

[StefanIsMe (imported)]

You want a LOVER, COMPANION and FRIEND, not another mother or sister, capish?

Damn! MY problem; I'm a gay male hunting for a lover who would care for me like my mother and who would make me laugh like my sister does.

Perhaps, the Red Nun, telling jokes, while bringing me a bowl of chicken soup is what I really want.

Dear help me God.

[sensenbender (imported)]

Just remember, religion does mankind no good until AFTER they are dead...

I donno about that. Christopher Hitchens has been dining out on religion all his life. He and Dawkins and Harris, among others (A-1 perhaps?).