Is 203 low enough?

[lister02 (imported)]

A side effect of a vasectomy I had in 1994 is delayed testicular failure. My recent T levels all tested low (around 203-205). I did not know it was happening but my abilities were weakening. I started to have less erections and they required direct stimulation and were easy to lose. My orgasms did not feel that good anymore, sometimes I am not sure if I even come. Touching my wife's body barely does anything for me anymore, But none the less I still miss the orgasms I once had. My wife did not enjoy intercourse before and hates it now that I take so long. It would be easier for us we would rather that I quit desiring sex and forget about what it was. Right now I seem to have the worst of both worlds :-\. Is my T level still too high or am I just addicted to an old habit and not letting my libido go south on its own?

PS: I could try HRT but I have long fantasized about being castrated and becoming a eunuch. However I likely never would have done it otherwise. So this just might be a dream come true.

[mrt (imported)]

I highly doubt a Vasectomy has goofed up your Hormone production. They are not cutting anything that should have that affect (Unless the surgeon was a total hack)

The kind of levels you have are low. A doctor should offer you HRT and I think it would make life a lot different for you. I guess the real issue is whats going on with your wife and her disgust with sex. Is she in menopause? Anyway, as "fantasy" goes your not quite to total castration levels but I think the difference is pretty minimal.

[paring (imported)]

I think , it's within normal range for your age I'd say low normal, before I started using TRT, mine was at 100.

[lister02 (imported)]

No one seems to believe the vasectomy link to low T so Here is a link discussing it:

http://www.gynecomastia.org/smf/index.php?topic=1680.0

Normal for my age is 500 to 900. 300 is considered the lower limit for any man(meaning likely 80 years old)

Any way that was not the question(s) I was asking. It was this:

Is my T level still too high or am I just addicted to an old habit and

would my libido drop on its own if I quit trying to have erections and orgasms?

[clysmaniac (imported)]

The "normal" range my lab uses is 280-1080. For quite some time I was just under 100 and generally pleased with that level, even knowing castrate level was generally considered under 50. After well over 2 years at that level I increased my drug level for a 3 month period and got my T level down to 44. I will say that there was a very noticable change from that drop. I lost more strength than I felt acceptable and my skin became very dry and itchy. I have since had an orchiectomy and am on TRT but have tried to keep my T level around the 100-125 level. Its not high enough to induce any sexual needs but it does keep me a bit stronger, my skin is still far less oily than before I started all this but not super dry and itchy and my body absorbs calcium better so my bone density has actually increased since my surgery. My doctors have been very understanding about my testosterone level and have generally been OK with letting me experiment with it. Since my castration, I have had T tests ranging from about 50 to well over 700 and have settled on about 120 as right for me and my situation.

I also have to disagree with your assertion that a vasectomy caused your low testosterone. I think it will be impossible to find anything in medical literature to substantiate that a normal vasectomy would have any noticable effect on testosterone production.

[gandalf (imported)]

I am not sure what mine is snce the lab my Dr. uses reports it in a percentage. My last reading was aomething like 1.6 and he wants it up to at least 2.0. Any higher and I have my libido perking up. Any idea what those ranges would be in the ranges you folks post?

[nullorchis (imported)]

Quest Diagnostics has web sites with useful information:

http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/top ... erone.html

While on the above web site, click on the link to Table 1 (it's a PDF).

It did not reproduce very well in this format

What's important is "free" and "bioavailable", not Total.

You ask of 203 is low enough?

That of course depends on what part of the test and chart does the 203 refer to, and what mental/physical/emotional/health experiences do you want vs what you are having.

[mrt (imported)]

Quest Diagnostics has web sites with useful information:

http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/top ... erone.html

While on the above web site, click on the link to Table 1 (it's a PDF).

It did not reproduce very well in this format

What's important is "free" and "bioavailable", not Total.

You ask of 203 is low enough?

That of course depends on what part of the test and chart does the 203 refer to, and what mental/physical/emotional/health experiences do you want vs what you are having.

The importance of Free / Bioavailable versus total is debatable. Ref AACE Guidelines to male hypogonadism 2002

The 280 ng/dL being "normal" is part of the big discussion on age related "normal" Currently the treatment indicated is suggested around 325 ng/dL but age does play a part in how bad that is seen. A man age 90 doesn't produce the same amount as a man who is 40 years old as example. But I think based on the averages if your under 325 you need to be over 100 years old for it to appear normal.

Some labs are still going by pre 2002 stuff and It think part of this is also very symptom dependent. If a man is complaining about depression, mental fog, anxiety and low sex drive and has levels in the lower end he will probably (Hopefully) be offered HRT.

[bobbie (imported)]

On the blood test I got a year after my castration. Notice the normal range.

Testosterone Free and Total -----------------1.8 pg/ml Normal male range is 47.0 -244.0 pg/ml

Testosterone Total ----------------------------8.0 ng/dl Normal male range is 350-890 ng/dl

There seems to be many different ways to measure testosterone. Many different scales. The USA seems to be on a different then most of the world.

WebMD

Table in http://men.webmd.com/testosterone-15738?page=2

7 months to 9 years --- Less than 30 ng/dL (less than 1.04 nmol/L)

0-13 years ---1-619 ng/dL (0.04-21.48 nmol/L)

14-15 years --- 100-540 ng/dL (3.47-18.74 nmol/L)

16-19 years --- 200-970 ng/dL (6.94-33.66 nmol/L)

20-39 years --- 270-1,080 ng/dL (9.00-37.48 nmol/L)

40-59 years --- 350-890 ng/dL (12.15-30.88 nmol/ L)

60 years and older --- 350-720 ng/dL (12.15-24.98 nmol/L)

[gandalf (imported)]

On the blood test I got a year after my castration. Notice the normal range.

Testosterone Free and Total -----------------1.8 pg/ml Normal male range is 47.0 -244.0 pg/ml

Testosterone Total ----------------------------8.0 ng/dl Normal male range is 350-890 ng/dl

There seems to be many different ways to measure testosterone. Many different scales. The USA seems to be on a different then most of the world.

WebMD

Table in http://men.webmd.com/testosterone-15738?page=2

7 months to 9 years --- Less than 30 ng/dL (less than 1.04 nmol/L)

0-13 years ---1-619 ng/dL (0.04-21.48 nmol/L)

14-15 years --- 100-540 ng/dL (3.47-18.74 nmol/L)

16-19 years --- 200-970 ng/dL (6.94-33.66 nmol/L)

20-39 years --- 270-1,080 ng/dL (9.00-37.48 nmol/L)

40-59 years --- 350-890 ng/dL (12.15-30.88 nmol/ L)

60 years and older --- 350-720 ng/dL (12.15-24.98 nmol/L)

Thanks Bobbie. Since I am older than 60, I assume that my reading should be around 350 ng/dl or at least 10.0 nmol/L.

I feel good as I am right now so won't worry about it. I can always drop the amt of Androgel I use to get it lower if I want it lower to be rid of all erections.