It's true - we totally have the best religion!

sensenbender (imported)
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Re: It's true - we totally have the best religion!

Post by sensenbender (imported) »

bobover3 (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:36 pm I'm neither hostile, nor angry, nor paranoid...... Don't project your own emotions onto others...

Ok, then I misinterpreted your comment, quoting again, "
bobover3 (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:34 am That's why religious people feel threatened by anyone's disbelief, and why they threaten disbelievers.
"

Contrary to the impression I may have given, I am not particularly religious myself, certainly not a traditional Christian, although I was raised in a Christian household by a Christian minister father. But I simply don't believe that religious people as a general rule, threaten disbelievers. I feel far more threatened by some religious people, Christians in particular, for being gay than for my 'unbelief', and I don't actually feel all that threatened for being gay either, not anymore, not in the last ten years or so.

I respect religion and religious people. I understand that religion is and has has been the cause of much harm in this world, but I think science has been responsible for nearly as much if not more human atrocity than religion. I also repect science when it doesn't try to suppress all other belief systems, which I suspect (perhaps incorrectly) that your version of science does try to do.
A-1 (imported)
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Re: It's true - we totally have the best religion!

Post by A-1 (imported) »

charlie murell (imported) wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:56 pm But if we didn't have Religion and money, what the hell would the world be able to fight over?

YOUR BALLS?

😄
transward (imported)
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Re: It's true - we totally have the best religion!

Post by transward (imported) »

"
Babbygirl (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:05 am Why is it that so many peop
bobover3 (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:34 am le of alternative lifestyles bash christianity?
" You should get out more. I'm often given opportunities at "salvation" by various religious groups. But that's the least of it. We live in a sea of religiosity. Politicians routinely invoke god. The deity shows up for almost all ceremonial occasions. If you're old enough, you began every school day with a prayer. Most colleges have chapels, even when they don't actually require religious instruction to graduate. Most towns are littered with multiple churches, and religious leaders are always numbered among community leaders. The Gallup Poll consistently shows about 25% of Americans expressing religious prejudices. Surveys show that about 40% of Americans attend church regularly - far higher than France's 20%. In the US, atheists are not quite respectable - to admit to atheism is to declare one's disloyalty to the majority sentiment. For that reason, most atheists don't talk about their (dis)belief, while the religious are free to aggressively propagandize. This past Easter, hundreds of Christians paraded around my town square holding up a huge cross and beating a drum. Atheists would never do this, partly because they don't require other people's agreement to sustain their beliefs.

Finally, anyone confessing his atheism is met by the cries of Christians who claim to be persecuted! Yes, that's right, Christians insist that anyone who di
ssents in public harms them! In post #17, I wrote that "r
bobover3 (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:34 am 764820]
eligion is a social phenomenon (one can't imagine a religion without a community of believers).
" This is why Christians feel under attack when anyone dissents. The foundation of their faith is the belief of others around them. They believe what others believe, because others believe it. This system requires continual vigorous assertions of belief in public; it requires aggressive conversion of non-believers; it requires continual reaffirmations of belief. Should any small voice say no, it chips away at the unanimity on which faith rests, and which is its fon
[/quote]
dest goal. That's why religious people feel threatened by anyone's disbelief, and why they threaten disbelievers.

Perhaps this political cartoon would illustrate your point:

http://gloriabrame.typepad.com/.a/6a00d ... d89970c-pi

Transward
A-1 (imported)
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Re: It's true - we totally have the best religion!

Post by A-1 (imported) »

sensenbender (imported) wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:54 pm And only a heretic fit for the stake would slander science! I could list at least ten parallels between religion and science, but I've been warned by Paolo not to be too provocative or I'll be banned. If you want to carry on this debate off line, I'm game.

Provocative? He was just being nice, My friend, your arguments SUCK!, and I do not even need to hear them again...

NOPE! Not interested in games off line. Yours or anyone else's. O.K.?

So, did you hear the one about the School board in Pennsylvania who tried to substitute religion (Intelligent Design) for science (Evolution) ?

Turns out that things did not go well for them.

YOU may WATCH THE VIDEO. (http://video.pbs.org/video/980040807/) (about 2 hours, with no commercials online)

Better yet, GO TO THE SITE (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/beta/evolu ... trial.html), buy the DVD and then pop it in the DVD in your van and play it for the kids while you are on your way to the "Creation Museum".

EARTH, LESS THAN 10k YEARS OLD. BULLSHIT...

:shakemitk

Actually, Creationists make me VIOLENTLY ILL... 🤮

:shakemitk

You NEED to separate YOUR RELIGION and SCIENCE.

Do NOT fight Evolution, you cannot kill off science, and you cannot denigrate it because it is a TOOL to deal with the empirical world.

RELIGION is NOT empirically justifiable. WE MUST TAKE IT ON FAITH AND FAITH ALONE. NOT empirically provable, FAITH? Understand? DO I need to tell you what Jesus has to say about faith, or can YOU find that scripture without help?

Science is empirical, supported with experiment, and NOT religion. NOT FAITH, despite what your typical IGNORANT-ASSED Preachers, Priests, LAIDmen, Missionaries, SHEEP, etc. have to say about science.

Religion, on the other hand, IS NOT SCIENCE.

MY FRIEND. PLEASE... GET A LIFE, GROW SOME BALLS, AND GO TO CHURCH AND LEAVE THIS PLACE ALONE if you want to preach. O.K.? >>>>

O,K,?

WATCH THE VIDEO. YOU WILL LEARN SOMETHING>>>

CLICK HERE FOR VIDEO (http://video.pbs.org/video/980040807/)

(about 2 hours, with no commercials online)

🙏

P.S. Please Don't post a reply to this. I am a NASTY asshole, just ask Paolo, he will vouch for me. Believe me, YOU DO NOT WANT ME AND BOBOVER3 DOUBLE TEAMING YOU AND YOUR POSSE... Your boys won't be able to sit in the saddle for at least a WEEK! 💥

...and maybe even a couple of... 🐫 (Converts?) 🤤 😠

😄
Elizabeth (imported)
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Re: It's true - we totally have the best religion!

Post by Elizabeth (imported) »

How fun!!!!

Are we really here to change each others minds or is it just a really huge waste of time? Well, in my 18 years on the internet I have yet to see one person change their mind on religion, politics or sexuality. There is no argument great enough to convince someone not to be the person they were brainwashed to be.

Elizabeth
bobover3 (imported)
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Re: It's true - we totally have the best religion!

Post by bobover3 (imported) »

Transward, just the right cartoon!

A-1, a great pleasure to ride the range with you!

Elizabeth, you make a good point about no one changing their minds. I'd like to start a new trend, so here goes: I'm now a Roman Catholic priest, a liberal Democrat, and a motherfucker, in no particular order.

Fun discussion.
sensenbender (imported)
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Re: It's true - we totally have the best religion!

Post by sensenbender (imported) »

A-1 (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:23 pm P.S. Please Don't post a reply to this. I am a NASTY asshole, just ask Paolo, he will vouch for me. Believe me, YOU DO NOT WANT ME AND BOBOVER3 DOUBLE TEAMING YOU AND YOUR POSSE... Your boys won't be able to sit in the saddle for at least a WEEK! 💥

...and maybe even a couple of... 🐫 (Converts?) 🤤 😠

😄

Did you mean, don't reply because you'll eat my lunch, or don't post one because you'll have me banned from the site if I say something you don't agree with?

Religions are the products of men, and so is science. God didn't create any religions, men did. Religions are fan clubs and God (or gods) are their celebrity(s). Here is how religion and science are similar, if not identical:

Parallels between science and religion:

• Professors = Priests

• Universities = Cathedrals

• Mortarboards = Vestments

• Lecterns = Pulpits

• Test Tubes = Chalices

• Scientific Propositions = Theological Suppositions

• SETI Project = Praying to the heavens

• ‘Big Bang’ = First ‘Day’ of Genesis

• Origins of life = Adam & Eve

• Scientific ‘Proof’ = Life after death

• Indisputability of Science = Infallibility of Religion

• Search for ‘Truth’ = Belief in ‘God’

I provided twelve to start with in case you take issue with one or two of them. Another one that requires a bit more exposition is this: No doubt we both agree that life did not exist on earth 4 billion years ago, but it does now and has done for about 3.5 billion years, more or less. How’d that happen? It was a miracle, that’s how. If you’ve got a better explanation, a ‘truer’ explanation, I’d love to hear it. I’m not suggesting that some anthropomorphic middle aged white man with a beard (i.e. some primeval conception of God) suddenly decided to create life as we know it with some divine spark unfathomable to mere mortals, but something happened and nobody, including you, knows what it was, yet here we are.

If you’re going to insist that science relies on evidence and religion relies on faith, then how do you explain the requirements for sainthood, i.e. the highest level of religious hierarchy akin to Nobel laureates? One of those requirements as we all know is to have performed at least one verifiable miracle, preferably several of them. What is a miracle except evidence, not to say proof, of the existence of God? So, religion is just as evidentiary as science when you consider things like string theory, uncertainty principles, and other propositions that are beyond the reach of empirical ‘proof’.

Scientists can do nothing more with the ‘Truth’ than priests can: They both can only look for metaphors for reality. The ‘particles’ in particle physics are there (or not) with or without the particle physicist looking for them. They never ‘discover’ anything. All they can to do is devise more and more satisfactory metaphors to represent their objects of fascination and describe their ‘behaviors’ to others. The theologist does the same with concepts of the Divine. All any of us have to go on is our chosen set of proxies for the aspects of ‘reality’ we don’t, and can’t, have access to. Consider this: What would an Atheist BE without God?

A friend of mine is an astrophysicist and former director of the Hubble project, but even he can’t explain the Butterfly Nebula and other similar heavenly bodies that are nearly perfectly symmetrical over hundreds of millions of miles. Can you? Scientists generally assert that concepts not subject to empirical proof are simply ‘untrue’, like voodoo. Yet, paradoxically, they are willing to speculate about the unknown causes of such phenomena as life and symmetrical nebulae. Why do they rule out the unknown causes of voodoo? Prejudice, pure and simple.
Ernie of Maine (imported)
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Re: It's true - we totally have the best religion!

Post by Ernie of Maine (imported) »

A-1,Transward,Elizabeth,and Bobover I am with you and I think Sensenbender is a recovering Christian like a recovering drug addict the need is still there. Ernie.
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Re: It's true - we totally have the best religion!

Post by A-1 (imported) »

Now tell us that particle accelerators are European Cathedrals.

YOU screwed up. Monasteries are Universities. I DEMAND a correction.

Now,google SCHOLASTIC and TELL me what church it talks about. Go read some Descarte and Kant and come back when you at least know enough about what you are talking about to construct a decent argument.

Don't YOU know the origins of the words "SCHOLASTIC" and "SCHOLASTICISM"? I guess not. That makes you an IGNORANT PROTESTANT, doesn't it? Now run along before I send the IRA hunting for you.

YOUR ANALOGY SUCKS, So forth and so on. Ya da, ya da, ya da...

Verifiable MIRACLES, like verifiable THEORIES, are in the eye of the beholder. Of course, some eye those things that can never be, and others eye those things that consistently ARE! Just being a dreamer does not make you bad. Just DO NOT expect me to accept YOUR dreams as reality.

What would an Atheist be without GOD?

HAPPY!

I tried to stop this thread, not ban the religious. hell, some of my best friends are religious. Maybe I am, YOU do not know. YOU do not NEED to know.. Anyway. We were minding our own business when the GOD DAMNED proselytizing started.

If YOU want to close this web site you are going about it in an ASS BACKWARDS way. But then, what else could I expect, what with your religiosity and all.

Using religion to obtain answers for scientific theories and questions is a habit of the intellectually lazy and the chronically STUPID.

You see, it amounts to THIS (http://imgsrv.gocomics.com/dim/?fh=f694 ... 85&w=900.0).

People BITCH about science and EVOLUTION, but then when their life is on the line they seek SCIENCE, not the Clergy. Science is much, much more consistent than miracles. So why is that? Simple. Science is better at curing things than religion is at healing them. IT is a numbers game. Stay OUT of Las Vegas since YOU seem NOT to be able to count.

Religion may be "infallible" but scientists dispute science all day long. By the way, you need to read some Steven Hawking to find out about what it was like before the "Big Bang"
sensenbender (imported) wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:35 pm A friend of mine is an astrophysicist and former director of the Hubble project, but even he can’t explain the Butterfly Nebula and other similar heavenly bodies that are nearly perfectly symmetrical over hundreds of millions of miles. Can you? Scientists generally assert that concepts not subject to empirical proof are simply ‘untrue’, like voodoo. Yet, paradoxically, they are willing to speculate about the unknown causes of such phenomena as life and symmetrical nebulae. Why do they rule out the unknown causes of voodoo? Prejudice, pure and simple.

Prejudice is neither Pure OR Simple. That is another asinine phrase that is over-used by the folks who are bible-thumpers and prefer rules to reason.

BUT Hey!,. and it was YOU comparing religion with Voodoo, Not me... 😄

It is Dodo bird-like to claim that something is true because you cannot prove it is NOT true.

So go stick your head back in the sand and leave ME alone. Do that and I promise not to kick your ass again because it is hanging out in plain view.

What if I claimed that I was YOUR father? Yes, it IS TRUE! It is true until YOU prove that it IS NOT true. How would you do that? Would you STOOP to using DNA as proof?

That, my friend is SCIENCE, and NOT religion.

The religious-bullies are so hypocritical that I cannot stand them. They scream religion until they are down to their last breath and then they expect science to bail them out when their faith fails them.

No, I stand by MY conviction that science and religion should NOT be mixed. If you DO mix them your explanations get more and more blather-like and you have to keep making up more and more lies as you go along to justify the ones that you told previously. You see, it is like when the Pope imprisoned Galileo for telling the TRUTH in the face of DOGMATIC LIES that the religious had accepted for years.

Religion is AFRAID of science because science uses reason and usurps the pseudo-authority of those who would expect you to drink Jim Jones kool-aid with your family. YOU claim that the Modern world has no standards and then YOU make up standards from religious scripture "interpreted" by those who claim divine right. Then you try to DESTROY science that proves otherwise. NOPE! I don't need any more of your lies today. Go HOME!

When you get there tell your mother that I said HI and that I am sorry about how much shame that you have brought to her! Tell her that I should have used a FUCKING CONDOM!

:shakemitk

🙏

...and when you crawl under the porch, I HOPE THAT SHE BITES YOU!
gareth19 (imported)
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Re: It's true - we totally have the best religion!

Post by gareth19 (imported) »

bobover3 (imported) wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:35 am Transward, just the right cartoon!

A-1, a great pleasure to ride the range with you!

Elizabeth, you make a good point about no one changing their minds. I'd like to start a new trend, so here goes: I'm now a Roman Catholic priest, a liberal Democrat, and a motherfucker, in no particular order.

Fun discussion.

Roman Catholic priests are not permitted to be motherfuckers; there are rules of celibacy in the profession.
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