Workers asked to return bonuses after 16 years
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LAWRENCEVILLE, Ga. About 180 county employees in suburban Atlanta are being asked to return thousands of dollars the county says they were overpaid 16 years ago.
Gwinnett County's chief financial officer, Aaron Bovos, calls it a project to "clean up receivables and to eliminate outstanding obligations."
The county is seeking to collect more than $39,000 from employees who received bonuses in their paychecks in 1994. Authorities blamed the overpayments on a payroll anomaly when the county adjusted employees' payroll cycles.
Employees can apply the money to vacation leave or make a cash payment.
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Information from: The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, http://www.ajc.com (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/ap/ap_ ... ww.ajc.com)
If it were me I would tell them to go pound sand. Then I would start a recall of all the elected yo-yo's that signed into this stupidity, 16 years give me a break.
River
Workers asked to return bonuses after 16 years
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Riverwind (imported)
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Slammr (imported)
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Re: Workers asked to return bonuses after 16 years
How about asking the Wall Street assholes to return their bonuses?
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Riverwind (imported)
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Re: Workers asked to return bonuses after 16 years
You got it wrong, they have not been asked by there companies to return there bonuses of millions, we are the only ones that have asked they give it back, and we don't count.
River
River
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Slammr (imported)
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Re: Workers asked to return bonuses after 16 years
Riverwind (imported) wrote: Thu May 20, 2010 10:57 am You got it wrong, they have not been asked by there companies to return there bonuses of millions, we are the only ones that have asked they give it back, and we don't count.
River
You got my reply wrong. I was saying, "Why don't we ask
" They wrecked the economy and their companies; yet they got billions in bonuses. We should make them give it back.Slammr (imported) wrote: Thu May 20, 2010 10:02 am the Wall Street assholes to return their bonuses?
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Old Greebo (imported)
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Re: Workers asked to return bonuses after 16 years
<<
I think I understand the US slang. Basically, if you've received a bonus in your pay-packet, and you don't really deserve it, then stick a finger or two up in the air and indicate that you intend to keep your undeserved bonus. And to hell with the consequences.
Messages like this must be most comforting to a certain category of b(w)ankers who, only a few months ago, we were castigating for their tendency to accept bonuses ...
>>Riverwind (imported) wrote: Thu May 20, 2010 5:05 am If it were me I would tell them to go pound sand. Then I would start a recall of all the elected yo-yo's that signed into this stupidity, 16 years give me a break.
I think I understand the US slang. Basically, if you've received a bonus in your pay-packet, and you don't really deserve it, then stick a finger or two up in the air and indicate that you intend to keep your undeserved bonus. And to hell with the consequences.
Messages like this must be most comforting to a certain category of b(w)ankers who, only a few months ago, we were castigating for their tendency to accept bonuses ...
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Buzz1221 (imported)
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Re: Workers asked to return bonuses after 16 years
I understand what you are saying Old Greebo -- that an underserved bonus is ill-gotten gains.
But if the employees received the bonuses in good faith and there was no deception involved then the mis-payments are not their fault.
Here in the US we have laws called a "statute of limitations" limiting the time after which certain results cannot be pursued. It varies depending on circumstances, and severity, but even some serious crimes cannot be prosecuted after a certain number of years have elapsed. There is a limit to how far back the government can collect taxes which are owed and not paid whether the underpayment was accidental or purposeful. There is a limit on money which can be refunded from the government even when an overpayment is undisputed. (I believe that is only 7 years, but I'm not a lawyer so you can't depend that that figure is accurate.)
!6 years is an awfully long way to go back to correct such an error. I suspect that -- even if a crime was committed causing the overpayment -- there would be some question as to whether the crime could generate a prosecution after such a lengthy period.
I suspect TPTB need to let it go and get on with things. Water under the bridge, etc.
But if the employees received the bonuses in good faith and there was no deception involved then the mis-payments are not their fault.
Here in the US we have laws called a "statute of limitations" limiting the time after which certain results cannot be pursued. It varies depending on circumstances, and severity, but even some serious crimes cannot be prosecuted after a certain number of years have elapsed. There is a limit to how far back the government can collect taxes which are owed and not paid whether the underpayment was accidental or purposeful. There is a limit on money which can be refunded from the government even when an overpayment is undisputed. (I believe that is only 7 years, but I'm not a lawyer so you can't depend that that figure is accurate.)
!6 years is an awfully long way to go back to correct such an error. I suspect that -- even if a crime was committed causing the overpayment -- there would be some question as to whether the crime could generate a prosecution after such a lengthy period.
I suspect TPTB need to let it go and get on with things. Water under the bridge, etc.
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Old Greebo (imported)
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Re: Workers asked to return bonuses after 16 years
There's the law. And there's conscience.
16 years is a long time to hold on to money that you know (or suspect, or feel) isn't yours.
OK, I know that's how people work. I'm sure I'd have held on to a bonus that was improperly paid to me, and I'd be bitching like mad if now, 16 years later, I was being asked (shock, horror!) to pay it back.
Don't quote law to me. Just think about what you know to be right.
As a matter of interest, are the bonus recipients being asked to repay just the bonus? If they're being allowed to keep the (notional) interest earned on the principal amount over 16 years, surely they're still making a very fat profit?
Even allowing for the negligible interest on capital over the past couple of years ...
16 years is a long time to hold on to money that you know (or suspect, or feel) isn't yours.
OK, I know that's how people work. I'm sure I'd have held on to a bonus that was improperly paid to me, and I'd be bitching like mad if now, 16 years later, I was being asked (shock, horror!) to pay it back.
Don't quote law to me. Just think about what you know to be right.
As a matter of interest, are the bonus recipients being asked to repay just the bonus? If they're being allowed to keep the (notional) interest earned on the principal amount over 16 years, surely they're still making a very fat profit?
Even allowing for the negligible interest on capital over the past couple of years ...
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StefanIsMe (imported)
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Re: Workers asked to return bonuses after 16 years
I disagree, Greebo.
It's probably safe to assume these employees got bonuses with some degree of regularity, probably yearly. They WOULD have expected a bonus of some sort.
It's safe also to assume when they received the bonus, it came with a 'good job' notice of some sort, a list of deductions, etc; bonuses are up to the discretion of management, not the employee; when I receive a bonus, it is what it is; I don't know if it should be more or less. I get what I get.
To come to me years later and say "Oops, sorry, we gave you too much" IS indeed utter bullshit. My conscience tells me that, not the law.
It's wrong, utterly, of them to ask for that money back. It was RECEIVED in good conscience.
Interest on top of it? What? Not a bloody chance.
The only way I'd agree with you is if it was an overpayment of WAGES, where they accidentally pay you at 30 dollars an hour instead of the 20 dollars you know you make. Not giving THAT back would be fraudulent and wrong.
But a bonus? No.
It's probably safe to assume these employees got bonuses with some degree of regularity, probably yearly. They WOULD have expected a bonus of some sort.
It's safe also to assume when they received the bonus, it came with a 'good job' notice of some sort, a list of deductions, etc; bonuses are up to the discretion of management, not the employee; when I receive a bonus, it is what it is; I don't know if it should be more or less. I get what I get.
To come to me years later and say "Oops, sorry, we gave you too much" IS indeed utter bullshit. My conscience tells me that, not the law.
It's wrong, utterly, of them to ask for that money back. It was RECEIVED in good conscience.
Interest on top of it? What? Not a bloody chance.
The only way I'd agree with you is if it was an overpayment of WAGES, where they accidentally pay you at 30 dollars an hour instead of the 20 dollars you know you make. Not giving THAT back would be fraudulent and wrong.
But a bonus? No.
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Richard_Less (imported)
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Re: Workers asked to return bonuses after 16 years
The article says they're trying to reclaim $39,000 from 180 employees. That works out to about $216.67 each.
I would think that depending on the actual circumstances, that's a small amount and that many might not have even noticed - especially since their pay cycle was being adjusted at the time. If it was a few thousand each then perhaps it might have been noticed sooner.
If they did give it back, can they have their income tax reassessed from back then as that could have resulted in them paying more in taxes than they would have... just this year I was a only couple hundred past the next threshold which cost me an extra $400 in provincial taxes - if I had realized I would have made a larger contribution to me RSP.
I'd say you gave out the money 16 years ago - deal with it. If they had discovered the error within a year or so, then asking for it back isn't so bad. Besides, they're county workers, and taxpayers - chances are they already paid some of it back in taxes that year anyway - especially if they were in the situation I had this year.
I would think that depending on the actual circumstances, that's a small amount and that many might not have even noticed - especially since their pay cycle was being adjusted at the time. If it was a few thousand each then perhaps it might have been noticed sooner.
If they did give it back, can they have their income tax reassessed from back then as that could have resulted in them paying more in taxes than they would have... just this year I was a only couple hundred past the next threshold which cost me an extra $400 in provincial taxes - if I had realized I would have made a larger contribution to me RSP.
I'd say you gave out the money 16 years ago - deal with it. If they had discovered the error within a year or so, then asking for it back isn't so bad. Besides, they're county workers, and taxpayers - chances are they already paid some of it back in taxes that year anyway - especially if they were in the situation I had this year.