Erections

[billie_tv (imported)]

I had taken Finasteride for about six months, stopped, and three months later went back for about 5 months, and then tried Dutasteride. I took Dutasteride for about 3 months. Since then I have been off for about 5 months now. What I noticed was while on Dutasteride my testicles shrank to about half the size at night and while on both I noticed that my testicles retracted and were held tight to my body which I did like. (I never liked having to adjust my balls when I lay on my side.) I don't know if any of you have experienced this but after stopping the medication, I can get a few nighttime erections and sometimes they're pretty hard but not as long, but mainly now they're soft. And no matter how sexually turned on I am when I'm awake, I only get the feeling between my legs but virtually nothing happens. That 'feeling' and then the rush of blood and an increase in size has been replaced with the same 'feeling' but only the mildest of changes- slight enlongation. - Short of having a blood test, I am curious as to what has occurred, since both meds are DHT inhibitors and not testosterone blockers one would think that after the meds that erections would return.

I am a closet crossdresser and have strived to feel more feminine and still appear socially as male. But not being able to muster an erection, I'm not really interested in women anymore, just that I still see one I am attracted to, but know that I can't do much about it. It's not just feeling physically castrated but emotionally castrated. I have the equipment, but it's not the same. I've done my reading and know that there are 'receptor sites' for DHT in the body and DHT pretty much is the Wheaties for the penis. I know there is debate whether Alpha 5 Reductase Inhibitors actually can permanently damage these receptor sites. So I'm only curious to hear what people have discovered themselves. Thanks

[bobbie (imported)]

I had taken Finasteride for about six months, stopped, and three months later went back for about 5 months, and then tried Dutasteride. I took Dutasteride for about 3 months. Since then I have been off for about 5 months now. What I noticed was while on Dutasteride my testicles shrank to about half the size at night and while on both I noticed that my testicles retracted and were held tight to my body which I did like. (I never liked having to adjust my balls when I lay on my side.) I don't know if any of you have experienced this but after stopping the medication, I can get a few nighttime erections and sometimes they're pretty hard but not as long, but mainly now they're soft. And no matter how sexually turned on I am when I'm awake, I only get the feeling between my legs but virtually nothing happens. That 'feeling' and then the rush of blood and an increase in size has been replaced with the same 'feeling' but only the mildest of changes- slight enlongation. - Short of having a blood test, I am curious as to what has occurred, since both meds are DHT inhibitors and not testosterone blockers one would think that after the meds that erections would return.

I am a closet crossdresser and have strived to feel more feminine and still appear socially as male. But not being able to muster an erection, I'm not really interested in women anymore, just that I still see one I am attracted to, but know that I can't do much about it. It's not just feeling physically castrated but emotionally castrated. I have the equipment, but it's not the same. I've done my reading and know that there are 'receptor sites' for DHT in the body and DHT pretty much is the Wheaties for the penis. I know there is debate whether Alpha 5 Reductase Inhibitors actually can permanently damage these receptor sites. So I'm only curious to hear what people have discovered themselves. Thanks

Avodart is Dutasteride.

Looks like from the long term side effect are low in the sexual area.

Effects of Dutasteride from web site.

http://www.dutasteride.com/dutasteride- ... fects.html

Dutasteride Side Effects

Dutasteride side effects are usually mild and transient. Drug related adverse effects of dutasteride certainly appear to be less than those associated with finasteride. The most common side effects of dutasteride are sexual effects including:

impotence

decreased libido

ejaculation disorders

gynecomastia (breast tenderness)

Dutasteride side effects discovered in a clinical study are summarized in the table below. Approxiamtely 6% of each group (dutasteride and placebo) withdrew from the study due to adverse events, with the investigator attributing less than half of these withdrawals to drug related adverse effects.

Summary of Dutasteride Side Effects

Side Effect Dutasteride (n=2158) Placebo (n=2166) Impotence 117(5%) 59 (3%) Decreased Libido 74 (3%) 40 (2%) Gynecomastia 29(1%) 10 (<1%) Ejaculation Disorder 40 (2%) 14 (<1%) Side Effects of Long-Term Treatment with Dutasteride

The incidence of sexual adverse events considered to be drug-related decreased with duration of treatment. After the 6 months of treatment impotence, decreased libido, ejaculation disorders and gynecomastia were all <1% for both the dutasteride and placebo groups.

The incidence of drug-related events was lower during the second year of treatment compared with the first year of treatment. The only exception was gynecomastia which increased from 1% in the first year to 2% in the second year.

The table below shows the results of a study performed by Roehrborn et al (Efficacy and Safety of a Dual Inhibitor of 5-Alpha-Reductase Types 1 and 2 (Dutasteride) In Men With Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia", Roehrborn et al, Urology 60:434-441, 2002). The results show a significant decrease in side effect profiles as the treatment duration increases.

Summary of Long-Term Dutasteride Side Effects

Side Effect First Year Second Year Total Study Dutasteride Placebo Dutasteride Placebo Dutasteride Placebo Impotence 130 (6.0%) 65 (3.0%) 29 (1.7%) 21 (1.2%) 158 (7.3%) 86 (4.0%) Decreased Libido 80 (3.7%) 41 (1.9%) 11 (0.6%) 6 (0.3%) 91 (4.2%) 46 (2.1%) Gynecomastia 28 (1.3%) 11 (0.5%) 23 (1.3%) 5 (0.3%) 50 (2.3%) 16 (0.7%) Ejaculation Disorder 40 (1.8%) 15 (0.7%) 9 (0.5%) 2 (0.1%) 48 (2.2%) 17 (0.8%)

[_g (imported)]

Besides the importance do you have any of the other side effects of low testosterone? If so the meds may of shut down the testicles.

[billie_tv (imported)]

Thanks for both responses. Bobbi you have a wealth of information. I had read results from various studies, including how Merk and GlaxoSmithKline like to reassure people that side effects usually go away with continued use, or with discontinuing their medication. I did read that not the majority, but a significant amount of people experience long-term effects.

It is possible that my testicles are producing more estrogen than before. I lift weights to try to keep up my energy and found that being on DHT blockers that my metabolism slowed down so that without exercise I tended to gain more weight. And fact or not, 6 months on Finasteride and I was getting a much larger and more feminine bum. I like the calm feeling from not having so much DHT, but I did notice what Propecia/Proscar/Finasteride users refer to as a "brain fog." Reading and thinking took more effort, it was harder to focus, and at times I would mess up words that I wanted to say. - It might be a jump here but I did read that MTF Transsexuals who go on estrogen and anti-antdrogens develop a similar structured and sized brain to a genetic female, and conversely FTM transsexuals developed the likeness of a brain of a genetic male. In all reality, it could be that there is some rewiring going on.

I did read on a Propecia help forum several instances of people thinking that their sexuality was affected in such a way that they began to find men attractive and previously - although human sexuality is a sliding gradiant- weren't (openly) attracted to men. For me, it's like getting a taste, and I mean a small taste because I didn't take Estrogen (and a nice girl here said that it is harder to quit than smoking) but that taste felt different, but I kind of liked it. I will say that being in my thirties I wished I'd had a chance to experience this when I was in my late teens. I'm quite certain that I would have wanted Estrogen at least to see if it felt as right as I think it would have. Establising oneself and having the world see you as male... it's not easy to do a 180.

As for my own side effects with Dutasteride/Avodart and Proscar/Finasteride:

- Tenderness of breast tissue

- Small increase in tissue and slight pointedness of aereolar area

- More easily fatigued

- Mood swings.

- Testicular swelling initially, then a gradual but actual reduction in size

- Decreased ejaculate. Then an increase, but clear (odorless) like water and my refractory period (time between orgasms) went down to about 20 minutes being about to produce a fair amount of clear liquid and have pleasure and not like when you're dry and it hurts. There always seemed to be fluid.

No effect on sex drive. Wanting sex, but not able to produce much of an erection.

- Orgasms less intense, in the way that a male grunts and bucks and that big squeeze from the prostate, but a more even, smooth slower release, (prostat is reduced in size and it's normal function might be affected), which at times was replaced by a more unexpected release of a large amount of clear- I'm thinking prostatic fluid. It was like I couldn't sense that I was about to release.

- For me, instead of thinking about sex and immediately having an erection, I can feel the sensation under my scrotum but it stays just there.

- even now I notice what is termed a rectrile penis. That is it seems to pull back inside more than before when it was just cold.

- One other thing, from doing weights I noticed that when leaning on the ground on my hand with my arm suporting me, a bit of a pain in my radius or ulna- bones in my forearm- but I don't know if it really was a Calcium depletion problem, as two studies seem to suggest that the meds I was on don't cause bone depletion, at least in the subjects they evaluated.

Thx for listening.

[Dana Lane (imported)]

December 15th my doctor prescribed me Avodart for blocking testosterone. She said it was 5 times more effective than Sprio. But for me it wasn't. I had a T level of below 20 before I started taking Avodart (from self medicating with Siterone). I had zero erections at night. After about a month I noticed things changing. I began to get erections again and my head felt funny. A bit more moody. I could tell my T level was going back up. So she prescribed me 100mg Spiro a day on top of Avodart.

For T blocking Avodart didn't work for me but now I am back on track after getting the Spiro added.

[billie_tv (imported)]

Hey Dana

I don't know why a doctor would prescribe Avodart/Dutasteride to block Testosterone. From all that I've read, Avodart/Dutasteride, Proscar/Finasteride/Propecia are 5-Alpha Reductase Inhibitors. That is they inhibit the enzyme 5-Alpha Reductase from converting Testosterone to it's more potent form, Dihydrotestosterone (DHT). There are two types. Proscar/Finasteride/Propecia block Type 2 which is found in the Prostate tissue- hence using it or a substitute in conjunction with prostate cancer treatment. It was discovered that many men being treated were growing back hair, so DHT is also present in scalp follicles, hence attempting to block it to maintain or, in some cases, successfully regrow hair. I will attest, these medications can have some mild 'feminizing' effects.

The Swedish Medical Products Agency (2008) and the United Kingdom's Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) say that use of Propecia may result in erectile dysfunction that persists after treatment has stopped.

Avodart/Dutasteride blocks both forms of DHT in the body: Type 1 and Type 2. When taking these medications you can actually have a 10% higher Testosterone level in your blood. Aldactone/Spironolactone can lower testosterone and block androgen receptors, so I would think that would be the way to go if you need to lower Testosterone. I'm no doctor and am not intending to give advice, only what I have read from medical and scientific websites. But be careful that you don't take any Potassium supplementation (including dietary Potassium) as it can lead to a deadly condition know as Hyperkalemia where you can have heart problems, even death.

Be careful, be informed.

[Dana Lane (imported)]

Hey Dana

I don't know why a doctor would prescribe Avodart/Dutasteride to block Testosterone. From all that I've read, Avodart/Dutasteride, Proscar/Finasteride/Propecia are 5-Alpha Reductase Inhibitors. That is they inhibit the enzyme 5-Alpha Reductase from converting Testosterone to it's more potent form, Dihydrotestosterone (DHT). There are two types. Proscar/Finasteride/Propecia block Type 2 which is found in the Prostate tissue- hence using it or a substitute in conjunction with prostate cancer treatment. It was discovered that many men being treated were growing back hair, so DHT is also present in scalp follicles, hence attempting to block it to maintain or, in some cases, successfully regrow hair. I will attest, these medications can have some mild 'feminizing' effects.

The Swedish Medical Products Agency (2008) and the United Kingdom's Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) say that use of Propecia may result in erectile dysfunction that persists after treatment has stopped.

Avodart/Dutasteride blocks both forms of DHT in the body: Type 1 and Type 2. When taking these medications you can actually have a 10% higher Testosterone level in your blood. Aldactone/Spironolactone can lower testosterone and block androgen receptors, so I would think that would be the way to go if you need to lower Testosterone. I'm no doctor and am not intending to give advice, only what I have read from medical and scientific websites. But be careful that you don't take any Potassium supplementation (including dietary Potassium) as it can lead to a deadly condition know as Hyperkalemia where you can have heart problems, even death.

Be careful, be informed.

I was VERY skeptical when she prescribed that for me to block T. She said Dr McGuinn in PA prescribes this for her patients to block T but I was still not buying it. At least now I have T blockers, Estrogen and DHT blocker prescriptions for a year! woot.

[_g (imported)]

Thanks for both responses. Bobbi you have a wealth of information. I had read results from various studies, including how Merk and GlaxoSmithKline like to reassure people that side effects usually go away with continued use, or with discontinuing their medication. I did read that not the majority, but a significant amount of people experience long-term effects.

It is possible that my testicles are producing more estrogen than before. I lift weights to try to keep up my energy and found that being on DHT blockers that my metabolism slowed down so that without exercise I tended to gain more weight. And fact or not, 6 months on Finasteride and I was getting a much larger and more feminine bum. I like the calm feeling from not having so much DHT, but I did notice what Propecia/Proscar/Finasteride users refer to as a "brain fog." Reading and thinking took more effort, it was harder to focus, and at times I would mess up words that I wanted to say. - It might be a jump here but I did read that MTF Transsexuals who go on estrogen and anti-antdrogens develop a similar structured and sized brain to a genetic female, and conversely FTM transsexuals developed the likeness of a brain of a genetic male. In all reality, it could be that there is some rewiring going on.

I did read on a Propecia help forum several instances of people thinking that their sexuality was affected in such a way that they began to find men attractive and previously - although human sexuality is a sliding gradiant- weren't (openly) attracted to men. For me, it's like getting a taste, and I mean a small taste because I didn't take Estrogen (and a nice girl here said that it is harder to quit than smoking) but that taste felt different, but I kind of liked it. I will say that being in my thirties I wished I'd had a chance to experience this when I was in my late teens. I'm quite certain that I would have wanted Estrogen at least to see if it felt as right as I think it would have. Establising oneself and having the world see you as male... it's not easy to do a 180.

As for my own side effects with Dutasteride/Avodart and Proscar/Finasteride:

- Tenderness of breast tissue

- Small increase in tissue and slight pointedness of aereolar area

- More easily fatigued

- Mood swings.

- Testicular swelling initially, then a gradual but actual reduction in size

- Decreased ejaculate. Then an increase, but clear (odorless) like water and my refractory period (time between orgasms) went down to about 20 minutes being about to produce a fair amount of clear liquid and have pleasure and not like when you're dry and it hurts. There always seemed to be fluid.

No effect on sex drive. Wanting sex, but not able to produce much of an erection.

- Orgasms less intense, in the way that a male grunts and bucks and that big squeeze from the prostate, but a more even, smooth slower release, (prostat is reduced in size and it's normal function might be affected), which at times was replaced by a more unexpected release of a large amount of clear- I'm thinking prostatic fluid. It was like I couldn't sense that I was about to release.

- For me, instead of thinking about sex and immediately having an erection, I can feel the sensation under my scrotum but it stays just there.

- even now I notice what is termed a rectrile penis. That is it seems to pull back inside more than before when it was just cold.

- One other thing, from doing weights I noticed that when leaning on the ground on my hand with my arm suporting me, a bit of a pain in my radius or ulna- bones in my forearm- but I don't know if it really was a Calcium depletion problem, as two studies seem to suggest that the meds I was on don't cause bone depletion, at least in the subjects they evaluated.

Thx for listening.

90 % of what you have listed are effects of Castration (surgical or chemical )

If you still are having these effects now that you have stopped taking the durgs, and your testicles are still small and close to your body the effects most likely are not going to change soon. There have been reports of chemical castration recover times taking 6 months or more.

If you wish for breast growth you will have to take estrogen, and the reason that the nipples are tender is the lack of testosterone and what testosterone was made was blocked and converted to estrogen, and also FAT produces estrogen.

[ramses (imported)]

FYI, Avodart is MUCH more effective at lowering DHT levels thatn finasteride. I think I read that it blocks up to 87% DHT which is twice as good as a 5mg dose of proscar (finasteride).

[tom_12345 (imported)]

- Orgasms less intense, in the way that a male grunts and bucks and that big squeeze from the prostate, but a more even, smooth slower release, (prostat is reduced in size and it's normal function might be affected), which at times was replaced by a more unexpected release of a large amount of clear- I'm thinking prostatic fluid. It was like I couldn't sense that I was about to release.

For me it just the same, i was two months on Androcur until December last year after an trafffic accident, the skin of my penis was damaged so they did a skin transplantation, and for better healing without erections i got androcur. Now it is hard for me to got an orgasm, a lot of clear fluid comes out, not like sperma before, i hope this will get better.