Toyota Recall in the News

[Riverwind (imported)]

Last summer a Lexis crashed killing all on board because the accelerator stuck and the driver could not stop the car.

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyo ... 02572.aspx

This is a major problem, this should have never happened.

The driver was an off duty cop.

The problem, a peddle that is to long and get stuck in the rug? NO

The problem that the accelerator sticks and its an electronic problem? NO

The problem is the driver.

Once again we want companies to pay for our mistakes, we don't want to take responsibility for our own actions or in actions.

This was one of California's finest, a cop, and he accelerated his car to 120 miles per hour before he crashed killing himself, his wife a small child and one other. This highly trained high speed specialist could not stop the car, the break did not work.

It is a shame for the young child, clearly he/she did not deserve this fate.

Me, I thought of two things right off the top of my head, actually this happened to me once when I was a teen.

I turned the key and shut off the engine.

Now that your hitting your head on your table. I have one more,

Put the car in neutral.

The car will stop if the engine is off or if its in neutral.

Driving 101. and he was a cop.

I wonder if he will win the Darwin award this year?

River

[Arab Nights (imported)]

This isn't exactly a direct answer, but in the past year for writing purposes I have had occassion to review police procedures for this and that. It struck me that things have been really well hashed out. It might be that on the individual case scale those law suits look really stupid. But if you then distribute that cost over a country as big as the United States (and I am sure Canada), the cost approaches 0 and we are left with something that is better than what one dictator could rule.

I cannot prove this. It is just a thought.

[Paolo]

Most modern cars and trucks also have rev limits. When the RPM's hit a certain point, the computer cuts the fuel pump. If he'd thrown it into neutral, odds are, the motor would have shut down.

While it's hard a on car, I also recommend finding someone with a "beater" and learning the emergency brake "Batman" maneuver. Very handy. In the event of brake failure, the E-brake is direct cable connected and will engage. You do tend to spin around, however.

One problem we do have is Drivers' Ed. classes. They don't teach practical stuff. I've seen a lot of kids here in town get an A in the class, and not have a clue how to drive, check oil, change a tire, or even have sense to look at the instrument panel every few minutes.

Yes, blame the car makers. More safety devices built in, more things to fail and have to spend $$$ on to have fixed! And drive up the initial price of the car!

[DeaconBlues (imported)]

Last summer a Lexis crashed killing all on board because the accelerator stuck...

Me, I thought of two things right off the top of my head, actually this happened to me once when I was a teen.

I turned the key and shut off the engine.

Now that your hitting your head on your table. I have one more,

Put the car in neutral.

The car will stop if the engine is off or if its in neutral.

Driving 101. and he was a cop.

I wonder if he will win the Darwin award this year?

River

OK, you are absolutely right, those two things should come to the mind of any competent driver in the afore mentioned "stuck accelerator" scenario, however, I must take up for the defense of the seemingly incompetent idiot who does not turn off the engine or put the vehicle in neutral and here is why I defend the seeming incompetents:

A long long long time ago, in beautiful Texas town... I had to teach my wife how to drive a manual transmission. That was an extremely stressful and painful task, as it is impossible to "teach" my wife anything (and NO, I am not kidding about that being impossible).

She claimed that pushing the clutch pedal was too hard, turning the steering wheel was too hard, she complained and whined about everything, she "had a headache," it was too hot, too cold.... well you get the picture.

We were in a HUGE and empty Texas sized parking lot, lots and lots of empty pavement to learn on... And you can see where this is going can't you?

She was in first gear, putting along and no more than 5-10 m.p.h. and we were approaching the end of the parking lot so I GENTLY AND IN A REASONABLE TONE SAID: "OK, turn it left now and we'll straighten out and go to second gear." She barely turned the wheel, and the turn was way too wide, but I still had at least thirty seconds to get us on course... So again, in a gentle and reasoned tone I said: "OK, try to turn it a bit tighter...OK, now maybe slow down a bit." She did nothing, no more turning, no application of the brakes, foot still on the accelerator, she was doing nothing. So more urgently I said: "OK, just stop for a sec... OK, just stop the car... OK, stop now... STOP!" (now raising my voice) "STOP! STOP THE CAR!" (NOW YELLING) "STOP!"

The car did eventually stop, after it went over the curb at the edge of the parking lot... and had done more than $200 worth of damage to the front valance/air dam (that was in 1989, and that was a LOT of money to me back then - about one fourth of my month's pay).

Many many many times since, I have gone over in my mind how easy and simple it would have been to simply reach over and turn the key to the "off" position.

This very simple and obvious thing should readily come to mind... yet it did not come to mind for me that day. It ended up costing me a lot of money and really drove a wedge between my wife and I.

In fairness to the now dead driver of the Lexus, he was quite probably distracted. I am the first to vociferously condemn "distracted drivers," yet we all of us have been distracted by trivial stuff from time to time. Yes, I strongly agree that any competent driver should always be ready to turn off the engine if that action is called for, yet no driving instructor I have met ever discussed or practiced that - after all, a "stuck accelerator" is a very very rare thing. Although in my particular case, a "frozen student driver" is not at all that rare, I really should have thought of it before I ever put her in the driver's seat.

[Richard_Less (imported)]

I had heard about a recall by Toyota and I think also Ford for problematic floor mats catching the accelerator not too long ago.

My brother had that happend to him in his first vehicle - a small Mazda sports truck - little bigger than a sedan, but still a truck I suppose.

He had after market mats - those deep plastic "pants saver" ones for winter. It wasn't winter at the time of the incident, but that's irrelevant.

He couldn't slow down so he popped into reverse. After he told us, we all were supprized as we all figured it should have ripped out the transmition. Of course, he was always the lucky one - born with a horse shoe you-know-where. Probably karma for all the childhood injuries he had (tobogoning into a wall, walking by a tetter-totter and getting it in hte head, that kind of bumps and bruises. Anyway, he now tends to always win some of the best prizes at his company's Christmas parties, etc.

I recently saw an episode of Mythbusters where they tried the myth of blowing a tranny (lovely image right?) by switching to reverse/neutral.

What they found was that most (if not all) automatics had neutral between Drive and Reverse and there's a safety built in that will keep it in neutral if the vehicle is moving in the opposite direction. For standards, they couldn't shift into reverse hard as they tried - don't remember if that too was a safety feature, or just physics. I recall they tried an old standard that wouldn't have such a safety (or power assist) with the sme result. Don't know that I saw the whole episode to see how they forced it to happed as they tend to do.

Anyway, I took driver training - almost, gulp, 20yrs ago and my instructor pointed out to pop it neutral if you were loosing control - I always remember that, never had the opportunity to use that knowledge (yet).

Back to the original post though - I am curious as to why the accelerator stuck. There must have been some cause other than operator error.

Far as the mat problems goes - I figure the solution is to replace the actual footrest (not sure if that is the right term) with a slightly shorter one that doesn't come near enough to the carpet to catch (assuming the pedal deisgn is flawed). One could also cut corners on the mat (literally I mean).

I also have to wonder why someone would be going 120mph=200kmph (with family on board no less). I've been up 160kmph - pulled a stupid "Tron" like manouver (successfully - think that's why I'm paying back Karma - used it all up in one shot) ages ago with several friends showin' off. I realized soon after how dangerous it really was - took along time to slow down without a stuck accelerator. I do suspect that perhaps the accelerator stuck at some reasonable speed but kept going and going to eventually 120mph where he lost control. If that's so, then it would be more ironic that a trained high speed driver didn't think to go neutral - any other avergage person could have just panniced and not think.

It is a shame for the loss of life and don't mean to belittle the tragedy by my next comment;

In a general sense (not just this case in particular) On the responsibility matter, it is also disgusting how people can do such stupid and dangerous things, then pawn off the blame to corperation/insurance companies and make them pay. Even in Canada I see we are becoming more and more a sue-happy society as the USA seems to be (again in a general sense - I don't like to get into stereo types).

Stupid should hurt is a great saying - I just wich more and more judges with such an attitude would be sworn in.

[kristoff]

Most cars nowadays: Turn off the ignition and the steering locks, ergo further loss of control if in motion. NOT recommended, generally.

[Paolo]

Locking steering is annoying and easily repaired by someone strong. I make sure to have someone break it on every vehicle I buy.

[Arab Nights (imported)]

In defense of the guy, there is a difference between abstractly knowing what to do in that situation and actually doing it in the instant of an emergency. In my experience, there are a few seconds when a car doesn't do what it is supposed to when I was in disbelief. You know, like the brake pedal goes straight to the floor and you think you must have stepped on something else because brake pedals don't do that (as just an example). You look down and sure as everything your foot is on the brake pedal and that is flat on the floor. That takes an instant of time during which things can go to hell in a handbasket. I did a splendid job of handling a throttle butterfly failing and falling in the full throttle position while driving across the very flat and very unpopulated Carson Flats in Nevada. I was less splendid when the brakes failed when coming up to the stop sign in a busy parking lot.

Being human, most of us are less than perfect and products do need to be designed with human weaknesses in mind. I would really hate to be the guy charged with human-proofing anything. Sometimes you just have to put it out there and then address the issues as they arise.

[Dave (imported)]

I agree with Arab Nights. There are a few seconds of startle or disbelief.

A few years back, I had a main coolant valve blow and all sorts of lights on my dashboard lit up, beepy things beeped madly and steam poured out from under the hood of the car. I was coming down a hill and if took a few seconds ot figure out what all that was and then plan where I should park to call the tow truck. Now I was in the car alone and didn't have anyone to scream or distract me from getting off the road.

[Riverwind (imported)]

The guy was a highway patrol man, a cop, I would expect this from some airhead house wife but no a professional race driver, doing high speed chases daily on the freeways of southern California, you don't go from 60 to 120 in a couple seconds. I say it again,

HE WAS A COP.

on the other hand he had his wife with him so he as a distracted driver.

HE WAS A COP.

River