casodex ?

[alex1234 (imported)]

Thanks for the information .. it is very useful.

I only take 50mg per day and I still have my testes. I am not interested by a feminisation effect. What I want is a reduction of my libido.

So what I understand of all this is that such a small dose of bicalutamide will only make my testes work harder to produce more testosterone to overcome the blockage and overall there will be no effect on my libido. on top of that it will have a feminisation effect that I do not want. Is my understanding correct ?

I have been taking casodex for just over a week now. I do feel some effect. My libido seams to be reduced a bit but not completely. I also seams to feel more join pain but I suppose this is an effect of the withdrawal of the testosterone.

If I understood correctly the post from helsinki, I should see an increase of my libido instead of a reduction .. and this is not what I am feeling now. I will continue to take it for now and see if it helps.

feel free to comment.

Thanks

-alex

[alex1234 (imported)]

I figured I would give an update ...

I took casodex 50mg/day for a little bit over 2 months.

The first couple of weeks were uncomfortable ... but after about 3 or 4 weeks I started to see an effect (decreased libido ).

after 7 weeks that effect seams to disappear and I started to notice a slight growth and tenderness of the breast. I did some research again and started to understand better some of the previous comments on this thread.

I also found the following article which is very interesting:

http://www.prostate-cancer.org/educatio ... erapy.html

Casodex seams indeed to have a high chance (60%) of causing breast growth.

This is not something I am looking forward and it seams it was well on it's way for me ... so I went to see my md again.

My second blood test (2 months after the first one) showed a slight increase in the T level.

He switched me to Androcur 50mg/day. I know it's not a very high dose ... but the announced goal is just to "reduce" my libido. This was just a month ago and so far it has had the intended effect, even if i see some up and some down. Missing a dose seams to have an effect 24 hours later.

Questions:

Can I expect any long lasting effect with just 50mg/day ?

I know the recommendation it to take 100mg for one or two months and then reduce to 50mg. What can I expect with just 50mg ?

Also is there any danger in taking Casodex and Androcur at the same time and what would be the effect? (I still have over 2 months supply of casodex)?

thanks

-Alex

[bobbie (imported)]

Do not know about anyone taking both casodex and androcur. The fact that you had mixed results with the casodex, think 50mg of androcur will have the same effect. You are on the young side so your hormones should still be in the normal area. With that in mind 100mg or 150mg may be needed. Stay at one level for a while. Since you are under a doctors care you can use his recommendations on dose. Blood test is the only real way to know just how well the drug is working for you. Reducing testosterone will most often have some change in the breasts no matter what drug you take.

The only way to know just how castration will effect you is a test drive. You can read and talk to many people about the effects. Living them is far different. Wish you luck in your quest. You are one of the lucky ones to be under a doctors care. Keep us informed.

[ramses (imported)]

Wy not add Tamoxafen? It can stop breast growth and stunt you libido even further while giving you some health benefits for the bones.

[alex1234 (imported)]

small update ...

I suggested Tamoxafen to my dr a few days ago and his response is that it has several side effects. Beside most often it helps when started at the same time than the anti androgen ... and it has little effect if started months after. I didn't insist.

I have been on Androcur for about 4 months now ... (after taking Casodex for more than 2 months before that). Just go a new prescription of Androcur. Still 50mg / day.

I am feeling the effect on my mood (lack of interest, slight depression, mood swing..) as well as on my body (less energy / strength). It still feels manageable so far.

I continue to appreciate the reduced libido.

My only concern is the development of small breasts. The area was very sensitive with Casodex but no longer since I started Androcur .. I hope it won't continue to grow. It's difficult to evaluate if it continued growing over the past few months. My measurement shows an increase of 1 inch for my chest circumference since the beginning ... so it is still not a real issue and i am probably the only one noticing it.

-alex

[Robster88 (imported)]

Hi Alex,

You mention that your libido has been reduced. Can you give us more specifics about how big of an impact the meds have had?

[alex1234 (imported)]

Hi Robster,

Here is a list of the few changes I have noticed:

- spontaneous erections are now very rares. I am still able if I want to but it takes a little bit more will and effort.

- almost dry... still able to get a few drops but I have been masturbating once every 2 or 3 weeks instead of every day.

After the first few weeks, after I started androcur I was able to get the same amount but it was very liquid and clear ... not at all what it used to be. Since it was almost like water, it even looked like it was actually more than before and in any case it was much more difficult to control (it is not "thick". so it just flow down).

It all changed over the past month or so and I now get a very small amount (few drops) and not so liquid. I am not sure how to interpret the change over time.

- very slight reduction of the volume of my tests. Several time it felt like there was a beginning of reduction but since I had taken precise measurements on day 1, it was easy to compare and I always saw there was no real change. For the first time, a couple weeks ago I noticed a reduction of the size of 1/8 inches on both sides. Both length and width.

- The main effect and the one I was looking for is that the will and need to engage in anything sexual has greatly diminished. It used to be a necessity to masturbate and I feel like I am now free of it. I can still have some fun if I feel like it but it is no longer an obsession.

I suppose it all depend on what each of us is looking for. I needed to remove my dependency on porn and masturbation and it is clearly a success. I feel like it has been worth the "price".

I am a little bit worried about the lack of energy and strength. A few times I actually felt a bit weak and I am afraid my muscles are starting to reduce. I have been trying to exercise more to compensate. It takes more effort to be able to accomplish the same.

I didn't have a blood test since I started Androcur 4 months ago. My next blood test is scheduled just before I see the dr again in 5 months. I have no idea how down my T level is now. However since I have been taking just a small dose (50mg/day) and it has not been that long, I doubt I am that low. But since the effect I am looking for is there, I am considering reducing the dose even further ... like taking a pill every odd day. The pill is small ... not sure how easy it is to cut one in two and just take an half every day.

I would be interested to know if others have been seeing the same effects and what they did about it.

Thanks

-alex

[Robster88 (imported)]

Hello Alex,

It sounds like your experience with Androcur tracks closely with what I encountered with DP. My wife was aware that I was on DP and like the reduced pressure for sex and reduced mess factor that came with the dry orgasms. However, over time I was really plagued with fatigue and a general lethargy that led to less exercise which in turn led to me putting on 30 lbs or so. Based on feedback from others on this board I opted to give Prozac a try. Since switching over I have got most of my energy back and shook off most of the weight I gained. The urge to view porn is pretty much nil and sex once or twice a week is plenty. When DP fully kicked in sex once a month was fine and this aligned well with my wife's needs. Although, the libido reduction is not as extreme with Prozac she is still far happier with sex once a week versus the daily demands that I placed on her for the first 20 years of our marriage. Also, generic prozac is much cheaper than DP. The only undesired side effects that I recall was drowsiness and yawning, both of which disappeared after a few weeks.

[alex1234 (imported)]

quick update ..

I have been taking 50mg a day of Androcur for almost a year now ... with a couple of month of Casodex before that.

At my last visit to the Dr not long ago he was looking at my blood test and said it was at "castration level". I am not sure it is really that low ... but I certainly feel a difference.

Total T went from:

11.6 nmol/L the first day I started casodex

22.7 nmol/L after 2 1/2 months of casodex, when I switched to Androcur.

9.7 nmol/L after 11 months of Androcur

normal is 10-30

Casodex had not much effect on the libido but really raised the T

Androcur lowered the T just below the normal.

I am not sure how this translate to the other numbers I have seen mentioned. I do feel a big difference when compared to before I started the Casodex.

Because my breast was taking some volume and was very sensitive, I insisted and the Dr prescribed 10mg of Tamoxafen a day. Again the dosage is low compared to the 20mg I have seen mentioned several times. I really hope it will have some effect because the breast is uncomfortable and embarrassing.

Other than the low libido that I want, I have been seeing some of the usual side effects: low energy, decrease in muscles and depression. I wish i could find a way to have the low libido without the side effects.

-alex

[hkeunuch (imported)]

Hi Alex,

I had been taking 10 mg of Tamoxifen to avoid breast development while taking Androcur. Generally 10 mg of Tamoxifen was adequate. There are periods, especially at the beginning, that I had to take 20 mg of Tamoxifen for about 1 week to stop sensitivity in my breast, and then reduce back down to 10 mg for sustaining.

With Tamoxifen, you might be able to reduce your Androcur from 50 mg to 25 mg (as I had done) and maintained a comfortably low (but not quite non-existant) libido. (Of course, what is an acceptable level depends on the individual. For me, having

By doing so, I got a bit more energy and slowed down my weight gain.

While doing blood tests, in addition to your T levels, you might wish to add the following profiles to your tests:

1. Hemoglobin (red blood cell count -- for which I ended up having had to stop Androcur because of persistent anemia, but recovered once I stopped Androcur)

2. Liver and kidney functions (which Androcur is especially bad for, but luckily I did not have any problems)

3. uric acid (not sure this has anything to do with Androcur, or it was caused by my blood pressure pills or my drinking, or all of the above, but again luckily, I did not develop full blown gout)

What you cannot easily monitor by blood test is how your lack of energy (and thereby lack of energy to exercise) eventually affect your overall health, and your depression. Just got to be extremely mindful and objective in observing your own moods. Stop Androcur if life feels like crap suddenly, or if you lose your sense of perspectives in solving problems in life, or lose your ability to focus on work.

Just as a postlogue, after taking Androcur and Tamoxifen for about 4 years, I ended up stopping all Androcur almost a year ago due to the anemia, lack of energy, loss of health and well being from the lack of exercise, weight gains and depression.

I am maintaining Tamoxifen to prevent any breast development because after stopping both Androcur and Tamoxifen, my breast began to develop again. Obviously, my T never returned -- certainly not from my testicles, which remained as small as their smallest sizes. My libido remains comfortably low.

My energy returned, so I was able to return to some form of exercise, albeit less than before. My weight slowly retreats. My health returned. My depression is gone. Inability to concentrate or solve problems are gone. Anemia has also gone. So, all in all, I think I have finally reached what I have been striving for, without the negatives from the damaging Androcur.