Hormone Replacement Therapy - Testesterone vs Estrogen

[intersexed (imported)]

Danielle,

Estrogen will provide you with what you need. As long as you're on (or naturally manufacture) one or the other, you won't face the health risks of hypogonadism.

You don't need to take

testosterone in addition to estrogen.

Though, after 10 years on estrogen, I'd be surprised if you weren't permanently chemically castrated by now. But I am not a doctor.

[devi (imported)]

I have been taking female phytoestrogens. I think they did help but how can you be sure? Anyway I've calculated that if I get normal estradiol (birth control) tablets and quarter them so that I don't get the feminizing effects from them then that should be enough. I guess you could count off 21 days from the full or new moon or else just go straight through assome women do.

[Senjougahara (imported)]

Something I've been thinking about lately: it seems that it's generally agreed you need hormones to maintain certain aspects of your health, mainly bone density and mental faculties. However some people don't want to be either masculine or feminine but some null gender in between. Hormones are detrimental to this goal as they pull the body towards one gender or the other, depending on whether you use T or E. Could such a person take both sets of hormones at the same time to cancel out both the masculinizing and feminizing aspects while still reaping the health benefits, or would the health benefits get cancelled out too?

Also does anyone have any figures on the minimum dosages required to prevent osteoporosis and other problems that can affect eunuchs?

[bobbie (imported)]

Also does anyone have any figures on the minimum dosages required to prevent osteoporosis and other problems that can affect eunuchs?

There are no figures on the minimum dose. Evey body is different. Some people can have no HRT and no bone lose. Bone loss has also to depend on the amount of calcium one takes. With good exercise and calcium you can some times prevent the bone loss.

All effects of castration can be a problem. There is just no simple answer on health problems.

[devi (imported)]

Though I don't think it'd hurt to obtain a 21 day supply of estradiol from one of your female friends on the pill and quarter each tablet for an 84 day supply which is equal to one season minus nearly a week. The one week would be your "period" so to speak. A quarter of the amount of estrogen isn't going to be enough for feminization. The body will simply take the estradiols and convert them into the necessary type of estrogens that your body needs for bone and heart maintenance is all. Testosterone which tecnichally is an estrogen -that is a masculinizing estrogen as opposed to a feminine estrogen or a neutral estrogen, is a little bit harder to obtain.

[EricaAnn (imported)]

Hi,

My question is this: Does Estrogen/Premarin provide the necessary health benefits post castration as does low dosage Testosterone? Is the real story here perhaps that a human being must have some level of either Testosterone or Estrogen in order to enjoy good mental and/or physical health?

Put another way, does a genetic male who has been castrated need Testosterone if he is taking Estrogen? (I have a theory on this, but I do not want to bias the group with a simple theory.)

Does anybody have any theories or knowledge of this? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Danielle

Hi Danielle,

In response to your questions, I have the following to offer.

Since you are transsexual you won't need real amounts of testosterone in your system after castration. Estrogen would be the preferred hormone for people like us. My endocrinologist, who has a great deal of experience treating transsexuals and hormone therapy wants my estrogen level somewhere between 400 and 450. I'm currently on a dose of 0.3 cc's of injectable estrogen weekly which has maintained my level right around 425-430. I also take a daily dose of 200 Mg's of oral Progesterone.

Contrary to what your doctor has told you, there has been a great deal of medical research done on transsexuals and hormone replacement therapy and their effects upon us.

Once your testosterone levels have been reduced substantially by castration, you will see a big difference in the way that the estrogen affects you both mentally and physically. Your breast development will increase greatly as well as the development of the subdurial fat layer under your skin which soften your skin. You will also begin to see the effects of fat transfer in your body and will begin to develop hips and what we girls call a "mother's pouch" which is a little tummy below your naval. The final effects will be an increase in your hair density, lessening of your general body hair and the softening of your facial features.

Please make certain that your doctor is carefully monitoring your hormone levels through regular blood test, which are the most accurate method of determining your body's response to the hormones.

I wish you all the best of luck. Should you have any questions that I can help with, please feel free to PM me.

[Danielle (imported)]

Quoting Evail:

"

220 of what? You see, figure without measurement units is quite meaningless.

"

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Of course, this is true. I think that the standard unit is picogram per millileter as I recall. I think all the major testing companies use the same units, but I do remember that I got slightly different results between Quest and Labcorp.

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Quoting Evali again:

"

You seem to be missinformed. There are doctors who specialize in treating TS and IS people, though there are not many of them (the specialized ones). There are conferences about this, where specialists discuss and share their knowledge, there are treatment standards and guidelines. Every bigger country has at least a few medical centers where things can be done, and where research is performed. I know that quite a lot of TS people complain that the doctors are too rigid and concervative in their thinking, but this is not the reason to say that there are no knowledge about this in the medical community.

"

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Yes, I know that there are doctors spread throughout the US who do treat GD/TS/IS people. However, I did spend a full day calling every endochronologist in the phone book looking for another doctor to handle my case who might be better than the one that I presently use. The all told me that they do not deal with these conditions. And that is all that there was to that.

So, I just stick with the one guy (however ill informed that he may be {or pretend to be}) who is willing to provide the blood tests and the prescription for Premarin.

Danielle

[Danielle (imported)]

Quoting Intersexed:

"

Though, after 10 years on estrogen, I'd be surprised if you weren't permanently che

mically castrated by now. But I am not a doctor.
[/quot

e]
"

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The numbers show that my T level is in the low range for a male, but not out of range as one would expect of a castrated male (roughly 220 {pG/mL} on the Labcorp scale). Anecdotally, I also observer that I still have a pretty hearty labido, so the T is still there doing its (unwanted) thing.

Danielle

[Danielle (imported)]

Quoting Erica Ann:

Once your testosterone levels have been reduced substantially by castration, you will see a big difference in the way that the estrogen affects you both mentally and physically. Your breast development will increase greatly as well as the development of the subdurial fat layer under your skin which soften your skin. You will also begin to see the effects of fat transfer in your body and will begin to develop hips and what we girls call a "mother's pouch" which is a little tummy below your naval. The final effects will be an increase in your hair density, lessening of your general body hair and the softening of your facial features.

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Hi Erica,

Most of those things that you mentioned, I have already had occur via the Premaring for 10 years of steady use. The only thing that I have not experienced that I desire is a reduction of my body hair and a reduction in labido. I have had all of my beard removed via Electrolysis (expensive and time consuming and sometimes quite painful).

Danielle

[Danielle (imported)]

Hi all again,

I appreciatete everyones council and advice here. It is great that there are people out there who have experience and first hand knowledge of this.

One thing that I forgot to mention is that I am performing castration by ethyl alcohol into the testes (drinking alcohol from a liquor store). Initially, I used 2 mL of 80 proof Vodka per teste every two days. I did that for 5 cycles and then switched to 1 mL of 190 proof per teste.

It seems to be going ok as I am taking some precautions with its administration. Initially, the pain was about a 6 on a 10 scale. Now, it is down to a 2.

Danielle

ps - my Endo refused to prescribe Depo Provera or anything like that for me. Just Premarin. He does not know enough to feel comfortable with that combination. If I were him and did not know, I would also refuse to prescribe both - - - so it is kind of understandable.