Bone loss in eunuchs

[Andrew (imported)]

Andrew,

I stand by my message about eunuch-wannabes poorly assessing risks (such as oesteoporosis). Actually, all humans are poor at risk-assessment and make decisions based on short-term gain or based on the fact they don't believe it can happen to them (like JeffEunuch saying "it's just a risk").

So here it is, 15 May, and I have spent a few hours on the internet after use of search words "male osteoporosis". Some observations include...

1) A lot of men are being diagnosed with osteoporosis, and damn few of them would be eunuchs.

2) In about one-third of the cases, the men did not have any of the classical risk factors for osteoprosis.

And there does not seem to be any reliable studies as to how much your risk increases when you are hypogonadal. Most men and women build up bone mass up to age 40, after which it startes to decline. So I suppose somebody castrated before age 40 would be at ag reater risk then somebody castrated after age 40. But by how much?

I used the GOOGLE search engine. Anybody else in EA want to do some research and see what they come up with?

[JeffEunuch (imported)]

I'm also dependent on medicare in BC. Being gainfully employed, etc., there's no way I'd qualify for drug assistance. I have a private plan, but never make a claim. I once needed an anti-bacterial drug a few years ago, but have otherwise never had a prescription for anything but testosterone. It's probably stupid, but the cost of the testosterone - about $150/yr - just doesn't make it worth while. Of course, BC Medical pays the costs of the clinic whose nurse provides me with injections. I only pay for the substance. My doc is trying to get me to use the Androcreme that was just approved by Canada Health. Because it's more expensive, if I do decide to use it, I'll make a claim from my private health plan.

As I posted earlier, all of us have different results. My bone scan result in 2001 was 1.1x an average 21 y.o. woman and basically the highest score one could ever expect. I'm a physically healthy and active eunuch. I bike 30 km return to work daily. I ran 62nd of 3000 entries in the Vancouver Marathon 2 weekends ago (1/2 Marathon). My little group of 5 runners that practise together all did in the top 100. I could have done better and had so much energy near the end that I'm sure I passed no less than 100 people in the least mile. I was lucky not to have knocked anyone over. I can't describe how exilerating it was. I guess I'm lucky.

[JeffEunuch (imported)]

I forgot to add that I have a friend that's intact and about 40 y.o. He's got osteoporosis and has had no end of broken bones in the past 5 years. His docs say the condition is a congenital defect. It can happen to anyone. We use to do bike tours together, but his doc has told him to quit, and he has. He broke his collar bone twice in fairly minor mishaps. I also feel lucky to have been biking for almost 50 years and never had a crash. I'm knocking hard on my wood chair at this moment.

[Andrew (imported)]

It is too bad that castration cannot just take us to a childhood pre-sexual state. Unfortunately, it is more likely to take us to senior post-sexual state.

OK, I am not quite sure what you mean about the difference between a "childhood pre-sexual state" and a "senior post-sexual state". Care to explain?

As far as I can tell, the first state has no knowledge of what an orgasm is really like. The second does. But does this mean anything to me? For me, the Eunuch Calm has simply taken me to a state where I am rarely bothered by thoughts of sex. I'd guess that over 95% of the times when I think of sex, it is while reading some of the postings in the Eunuch Archives. Away from the EA, I think about other things.

[Andrew (imported)]

Came across this informative article on a possible future tretment for osteoporosis that should be of interest to all of us

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sc...000/1989461.stm

[happousai (imported)]

Came across this informative article on a possible future tretment for osteoporosis that should be of interest to all of us

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sc...000/1989461.stm

Can you post that URL again? It got corrupted. It really has the "..." in it.

[luvpain (imported)]

Happousai,

Did a search of the site, and found the link.

Cosmonaut shacken back to health (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/te ... 989461.stm)

[Bboy]

As someone who regularly has to take prednisone and/or kenalog (steroids) for asthma, I am a HIGH risk for osteoporosis myself. Am interested in the most effective preventative measures -- ie: what calcium suppliments work best, are best absorbed, etc.

I will say that per my doctor's instructions I know that vitamin D is essential in the uptake of calcium, so any calcium suppliment you take ought to be combined with D in at least a 600 cal/200 D ratio.

[Andrew (imported)]

I will say that per my doctor's instructions I know that vitamin D is essential in the uptake of calcium, so any calcium suppliment you take ought to be combined with D in at least a 600 cal/200 D ratio.

My program has three parts:

1) 4 tablets daily of Willner Chemists Bone Complex, for 800 mg of calcium and 200 IU of vitamin D-3. I take two on waking up and two at lunch.

2) A multivitamin/multimineral tablet, taken at supper, that provides another 400 IU of Vitamin D.

3) 3 calcium citrate tablets at bedtime to bring me up to a daily intake of 1,500 mg of calcium.

Plus lots of walking around at work on a rock hard floor.

My physician, Donna Garnier P.A., has approved this program, and told me I was unlikely to get osteoporsis. Still, I will get a DEXA bone density scan every two years just to be sure.

[antonia (imported)]

Long-term follow-up of bone mineral density and bone metabolism in transsexuals treated with cross-sex hormones

Paul van Kesteren, Paul Lips, Louis J. G. Gooren,

Henk Asscheman and Jos Megens

Department of Endocrinology, Academic Hospital Vrje

Universiteit, Amsterdam, The Netherlands

(Received 5 June 1997; returned for revision 25 July 1997;

finally revised 5 September 1997; accepted 14 October 1997)

Summary

OBJECTIVE lt is unknown whether long term cross sex hormone treatment affects the human skeleton. We monitored bone mineral density and biochemical markers of bone turnover for 28—63 months in 20 male-to-female transsexuals (M-F) treated with anti-androgens and oestrogens, and 19 female-to-male transsexuals (F-M) treated with androgens. They underwent gonadectomy 13—35 months after the start of cross-sex hormone administration.

DESIGN Bone mineral density (BMD) and the markers of bone turnover osteocalcin, alkaline phosphatase, fasting urinary calcium/creatinine and hydroxyproline/creatinine, were measured at baseline, after 1 year and after 28—63 months of cross-sex hormone administration.

RESULTS In oestrogen-treated M—F, variables of bone turnover decreased significantly with consecutive measurements. BMD had increased significantly after 1 year, but decreased again to baseline levels after 28—63 months of cross-sex hormones.

In F—M, alkaline phosphatase levels increased during the first year. BMD did not change during the first year but had decreased significantly after 28—63 months following ovariectomy. In both M — F and F—M, the change of BMD correlated inversely with serum LH and FSH levels. Of all biochemical variables LH levels appeared to be the best predictor of loss of BMD; in the long-term LH levels were more elevated in testosterone-treated F— M than in oestrogen-treated M —. F transsexuals.

CONCLUSION In M-F, oestrogen treatment prevented bone loss after testosterone deprivation. In F — M the testosterone dosage used, associated with a decline in serum oestradiol levels, was unable to maintain bone mass fully in all subjects in the Longer term. The inverse relationship between BMD and serum LH levels suggests that the dose of hormone replacement has been too 10w in subjects with a decline in their BMD. Its cause might be under dosing or non-compliance in some patients. We propose that serum LH levels may be used as a measure of the adequacy of replacement with sex steroids.

I did read another survey on the subject specifically for post menopause women.

There they claimed that HRT(hormone replacement therapy) did stop or significantly reduce osteoporosis.

Noticed and very interesting was the fact that every time HRT was ceased that the patients showed a significant loss of bone density.

This result of bone density loss would occur every time the patient stopped taking HRT.

Multiplies the risk of osteoporosis and bone density loss!

The suggestion therefor was that patients with high risk or signs of osteoporosis should take HRT in small doses for the rest of their lives.

If the patient is less dangered of being osteoporous then it would be better looking for other methods of treatment(calcium supplementation).

I think what IEunich is experiencing is just what I have described.

His HRT is not regular and he seems to stop for several months and then continues.

This would result in a high % of bone mineral loss every time he does this.

When he recontinues HRT his bone mineral density does not increase...because HRT does not support bone mineral increase...just prevents the loss!!!

your antonia :withstupi