Note to authors

Slammr (imported)
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Re: Note to authors

Post by Slammr (imported) »

Slammr,
Il Musico (imported) wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:00 am And your re-writing indeed contains some better wording than mine. I can notice that when I read it, but I cannot come up with optimal formulations myself, when I write! I need more practice in English for that.

Il Musico.

You're doing quite well in English. If I didn't know English wasn't your first language, I would be able to tell by reading this story. Many that know only English couldn't do better. As you said, you just need more practice.
gareth19 (imported)
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Re: Note to authors

Post by gareth19 (imported) »

Misha999 (imported) wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:37 am Here are a few more tips. If you use a ? you don't need , he/she asked.

The question mark signifies that without the speech tag.

The same goes for the exclamation mark ! .

Unless of course it is no longer clear whose turn it is to ask or exclaim; the function of the main clause (i.e. he said, she expostulated, or it asserted-- the quoted material is the dependent, embedded clause functioning as the direct object of the verb of speech) is not to identify the type of dependent clause but to identify the speaker.
Misha999 (imported) wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:37 am For internal thoughts the current trend is to italicize the text e.g. Jim found the door hidden behind the bed. Well I'll be damed!

Rather than Jim found the door hidden behind the bed. "Well I'll be damed!", Jim thought.

Different houses have different practices, but all agree that commas and periods go INSIDE the double quotes, and there is only one mark of punctuation used at a time. The last sentence should be correctly punctuated

"Well I'll be damed!" Jim thought.

Question marks and exclamations are inside the double quotes if they belong to the quoted material, that is the quotation itself is a question or exclamation such as "Damn, are you sure he is that dumb?" but outside if you are questioning or exclaiming about a quote such as Did he really say "I know how to punctuate"?

Colons and semicolons always go outside of double quotes.

Some houses differ on matters of whether or nor to include a comma before the last item in a series. Some prefer The plots in novels by Dickens are improbable, his characters shallow, and his sentiment histrionic. Others are comfortable with A novel by Dickens is bound to be outdated, maudlin and depressing.

Some presses (Oxford is the most notable) omit the final period in abbreviations that end with the final letter of the word. Therefore, one can write "Mr Smith Goes to Washington" but must use "Prof. Jones and the Temple of Doom."

Most professional presses have a manual of style; many are largely reflections of the University of Chicago Manual of Style, which also dictates how to set up the copyright, title, and bastard title pages.

The late Diane Hacker has gained immortality through A Writer's Reference, which is a cheap, compact manual of style available in most college bookstores and abundantly available in used bookshops when the students leave college and proceed to forget everything they've learned. Professionals tend to rely on handbooks of major presses, like the Chicago, Prentice-Hall, or Little-Brown although the consolidation of more and more publishers into fewer and fewer actual companies is pushing many of these handbooks into obsolescence. The United States Government Printing Office also publishes a manual of style, printed at tax-payer expense and therefore available through the GPO very cheaply, and believe it or not, your government has a rather good sense of style, which leads me to believe that none of our public servants have ever read it.

My advice to the archive is to choose one of these as the official style sheet and refer prospective authors to it for matters of format. Hacker is probably the cheapest comprehensive manual that is readily available. The GPO Manual is thorough, but unless you are inclined to write off for government publications, not likely to fall into your hands. Chicago is more authoritative, but also more expensive and probably needlessly complex. It covers the niceities of differentiating between Dutch and French when alphabetizing authors for bibliographies, how to properly transliterate Urdu, and how to distinguish between a figure and a table.
curious_guy (imported)
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Re: Note to authors

Post by curious_guy (imported) »

gareth19 (imported) wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:04 pm The United States Government Printing Office also publishes a manual of style, printed at tax-payer expense and therefore available through the GPO very cheaply, and believe it or not, your government has a rather good sense of style, which leads me to believe that none of our public servants have ever read it.

Is this available as a free electronic book?
gareth19 (imported)
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Re: Note to authors

Post by gareth19 (imported) »

I don't know. I like bound books, and have no use for kindles or stuff of that sort. The GPO books are usually bound in green library buckram and are quite good values, so I've never tried to get them for free.
curious_guy (imported)
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Re: Note to authors

Post by curious_guy (imported) »

gareth19 (imported) wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:34 pm I don't know. I like bound books, and have no use for kindles or stuff of that sort. The GPO books are usually bound in green library buckram and are quite good values, so I've never tried to get them for free.

I find that I prefer reading off the screen. I prop my laptop up on a pillow on my belly so I do not have to hold anything. Also, I can adjust the text size so that it is big enough that I do not have to use reading glasses. With reference books, I can usually use the search function to find what I want faster than I could with dead-tree-ware. Another thing I like about ebooks is that I do not have to get up and look for them.

Since that guide was produced at tax payer expense, it should be in the public domain and available electronically. I just looked at Project Gutenberg and did not find a writing style guide.
C van D (imported)
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Re: Note to authors

Post by C van D (imported) »

Slammr (imported) wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:33 pm You certainly do better than many of those to whom English is a native language

In dialog, each speech, even if only a single word, is usually a paragraph in itself. Although the rules of grammar can occasionally be violated to achieve an effect, the common practice is to give each speech a paragraph of its own. This is a rule of English grammar. Site rules don't differ from the rules of English grammar.

I reread your story, and you did violate this rule occasionally, but you don't have a lot of dialog, and it didn't greatly impact the story, and most of the time you did start a new paragraph with each new speech. You're not going to have a story rejected for one or two violations of this rule. It becomes a problem when the speaker continually changes all in one paragraph.

A new paragraph alerts the reader that a change has taken place. Sometimes that alone is enough to indicate the new speaker.For example:

"Why did you rat on me?" asked Ryan.

"I didn't rat on you," said Sam.

"The Hell you didn't."

"The Hell I did."

"If you didn't, who did?" said Ryan.

Here's one of your paragraphs that I find a little confusing the way it's written:

Very early next morning, Martin got up to help Old Bill milk the cows. Tommy was sleeping soundly, but not for long, because mom would soon enough throw him out of bed and put him on his way to school! Martin had grown up trusting Old Bill more than even his dad, and so he felt he could talk to the old man freely, without the boundaries that usually limit father-son talks. While Old Bill was on his third cow, and Martin had started his second, he found the courage to start, and time was pressing: They had only three more cows to go! “Bill..?” “Yes, boy?” Martin’s heart was pounding hard. “Do you know about those Italian singers that have high voices even when they grow up?

Here's how I would write it:

Very early the next morning Martin got up to help old Bill milk the cows. Tommy was sleeping soundly, but not for long. Mom would soon have him out of bed and on his way to school.

Martin had grown up trusting old Bill, more even than he trusted his dad. He could talk freely to Bill without the boundaries that usually limited talks with his dad.

Bill was on his third cow, and Martin was on his second, when Martin found the courage to speak. He was running out of time; they only had three more cows to milk.

"Bill..."

"Yes, Boy," said Bill.

His heart pounding, Martin said, "Do you know about those Italian singers that have high voices, even when they grow up?"

You can possibly get by with fewer paragraphs than than I have, but there should have been a new paragraph each time a different person spoke. If the first three paragraphs were combined, you wouldn't be necessarily violating any rule of grammar. Such decisions are somewhat subjective. I started new paragraphs, because there seemed to be a new thought or shift in emphasis. Whenever there is, I like to start a new paragraph.

The last three paragraphs are necessary according to the rules of English grammar.

I agree totally with Slammr's remarks, but find myself frustrated by EA's new software, particularly in regard to my "playlets". My originals go somewhat like this:

Speaker's name underlined.

Speaker's tone of voice in italics

Speaker's words in Roman

Stage direction in italics

However when I transmit the piece to the tank all these different styles get obliterated and even the spacing goes pear-shaped; you end up with:

Simon (blankly) I don't know what you mean (he sits down)

Any suggestions?

C van D
curious_guy (imported)
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Re: Note to authors

Post by curious_guy (imported) »

C van D (imported) wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:21 am I agree totally with Slammr's remarks, but find myself frustrated by EA's new software, particularly in regard to my "playlets". My originals go somewhat like this:

Speaker's name underlined.

Speaker's tone of voice in italics

Speaker's words in Roman

Stage direction in italics

However when I transmit the piece to the tank all these different styles get obliterated and even the spacing goes pear-shaped; you end up with:

Simon (blankly) I don't know what you mean (he sits down)

Any suggestions?

C van D

I think you can use the same commands in the stories as you can in messages.
C van D (imported) wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:21 am Speaker's name underlined.

Speaker's tone of voice in italics

Speaker's words in Roman

Stage direction in italics

If you reply to this message, you will see the codes I used. (Actually I selected the text and used the toolbars in the edit window.) The easiest way to add the message commands would be to type the story part in plain text, paste it into a PM, and the commands and then copy the text back into the clipboard.
Misha999 (imported)
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Re: Note to authors

Post by Misha999 (imported) »

Here is the US Gov style URL: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/stylemanual/browse.html

M :)
Il Musico (imported)
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Re: Note to authors

Post by Il Musico (imported) »

Gareth,

I wanted to reply to Misha about the tags being there mostly to make clear who's speaking, but you did that nicely for me! Thanks!

Thanks also for clearing up the issue about never using two marks of punctuation. I don't know many rules, I write mostly "by instinct", which in reality means "by visual memory", repeating the same things (including the mistakes) I have seen other people do. Things like

"What's up?", Brian asked.

"Nothing, OF COURSE!", was the eunuch's angry reply.

indeed look wrong to me, but when I delete the commas, it still looks wrong to me! After a question or exclamation mark and closing quotation marks I would expect a new sentence to begin, in uppercase, and not a lowercase dialog tag! The comma somehow seems to tie the tag to the question. But not very well...

OK, so I will try to go by the rules you explained. The question is just how many of them I will remember. Also, if I have to think about too many rules while writing, the hero of the day might find time to run away! I guess that's also the fear of so many other authors, and this makes them write very fast, making more mistakes than necessary. Actually in many stories it can be observed that where the actions gets hot, grammatical correctness suffers!

Klaus-Peter:

By "writing in both languages" do you mean dass ich in beiden Sprachen gemischt schreiben soll? Daraus könnte man a mighthy fine story machen! Of course, nur wirklich zweisprachige Leser would be able sowas fließend zu lesen!

Writing the same story first in one, then in the other language, is too much effort. Very often some formulations or some word play used in one language won't work in the other. It would be more productive to write two completely different stories, each in one language.
Slammr (imported)
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Re: Note to authors

Post by Slammr (imported) »

curious_guy (imported) wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:31 am I think you can use the same commands in the stories as you can in messages.
C van D (imported) wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:21 am Speaker's name underlined.

Speaker's tone of voice in italics

Speaker
curious_guy (imported) wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:31 am 's words in Roman

Stage direction in italics

If you reply to this message, you will see the codes I used. (Actually I selected the text and used the toolbars in the edit window.) The easiest way to add the message commands would be to type the story part in plain text, paste it into a PM, and the c
ommands and then copy the text back into the clipboard.

Don't believe it will work. The story editor uses html, while the message board uses bb code.

Back a ways I could post a story to one of my web sites, select and copy it, pasting it to the story editor, and it would preserve the html, providing the correct formatting including underlining and italics. I don't know if that will still work. That was before IEunuch redid the story software.
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