David:
I agree 100%. It takes a bit to develop a character and as a writer, once I find a character I like I want to keep him around for a few more scenes.
Same thing with locations. It makes it easier to write if you have a base to work from.
I think Chad is entitled to his opinion, just don't have to agree with it. Good thing we all think differently. It would be boring if we all thought the same.
LEE
Multiple Parts
-
LEE (imported)
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 6:04 pm
-
Posting Rank
Re: Multiple Parts
I have to agree with david on this one. It takes a LOT of work to write a story, and at first, a lot of nerve to submit it.
I could go on and on about all the things that got in my way of finishing XY-n, but I won't. You have to keep in mind that most people DO have a life outside of their computer room.
I have advice to offer on this one about multiple part stories: either wait for them all to be posted and read it all at once, or don't even start reading a story that has a '1' at the end of its title.
I could go on and on about all the things that got in my way of finishing XY-n, but I won't. You have to keep in mind that most people DO have a life outside of their computer room.
I have advice to offer on this one about multiple part stories: either wait for them all to be posted and read it all at once, or don't even start reading a story that has a '1' at the end of its title.
-
jab (imported)
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2002 3:26 pm
-
Posting Rank
Re: Multiple Parts
I understand that it's tough to write something that establishes a place, time, characters, and atmosphere, and then to continue by including an actual story line and wrap it up within one posting.
But...
Much of what's posted in chapters is NOT really a story told in chapters, but a poorly told story told a short bit at a time. Imagine reading a story, that could be written as a large-print 25-page book for a beginning reader, but in this format:
Chapter 1: Intro to Timmy
Chapter 2: Timmy wakes up
Chapter 3: Timmy turns off the alarm clock
Chapter 4: Timmy falls back asleep
Chapter 5: Description of the wallpaper in Timmy's bedroom
Chapter 6: Timmy's dog hops on the bed and wakes him...
...
Chapter 102: Timmy has to decide between having oatmeal or eggs for breakfast
...
Chapter 921: Timmy leaves for school
...
Chapter 2012: Timmy falls asleep, and the day ends
Now, describing it this way is <B>fairly impolite</B>, but many of the stories feel that way.
Not all. But a lot.
The person who wrote that pointing this out and calling it "rude" was offensive, well, should look at the stories that continue to part 30 or part 60. It's like reading a story written by Anne Rice, who masturbates regularly into her typewriter and sends the resulting ejaculate to her publishers as finished work.
You might get the impression that I really like the story to go somewhere.
My solution: I read the first "chapter" of a story, skimming much of it to see if the "chapter" really tells enough of its own story to catch my interest. If so, I'll read the chapter more carefully and look for the second chapter; if not, I ignore the rest.
However, it's an imperfect solution born out of the desire to read some of this. I don't want people to stop submitting stories, by any means, but really would like authors to realize that a multi-part story is a liability. If you really want to tell a longer story, consider writing one segment of it and posting it, and make sure that the segment you post is self-contained and well-written. Then, if you really think that adding the rest before and after it will augment the strength of the story, have at it.
But remember: it is not a sin to tell a fragment of a story, while not finishing it ever. If the story's good enough, it'll have some good substories to tell.
Like that little fragment of a bigger story, that George Lucas released as a movie in 1977. Self-contained, although it had hints/hooks of tying it to a bigger story. (We could argue as to whether the additional material added since 1977 really makes it a stronger or a weaker story.)
Rule of thumb: if the chapter you're getting ready to post is to provide atmosphere, but has no plot or movement, either you should see if you're channeling Hemmingway (good, mostly) or Rice (terrible, always).
[You might get the impression that I don't respect Anne Rice as a writer. If she were a writer, then you're right, I wouldn't respect her as one. However, since she's not a writer....
]
But...
Much of what's posted in chapters is NOT really a story told in chapters, but a poorly told story told a short bit at a time. Imagine reading a story, that could be written as a large-print 25-page book for a beginning reader, but in this format:
Chapter 1: Intro to Timmy
Chapter 2: Timmy wakes up
Chapter 3: Timmy turns off the alarm clock
Chapter 4: Timmy falls back asleep
Chapter 5: Description of the wallpaper in Timmy's bedroom
Chapter 6: Timmy's dog hops on the bed and wakes him...
...
Chapter 102: Timmy has to decide between having oatmeal or eggs for breakfast
...
Chapter 921: Timmy leaves for school
...
Chapter 2012: Timmy falls asleep, and the day ends
Now, describing it this way is <B>fairly impolite</B>, but many of the stories feel that way.
Not all. But a lot.
The person who wrote that pointing this out and calling it "rude" was offensive, well, should look at the stories that continue to part 30 or part 60. It's like reading a story written by Anne Rice, who masturbates regularly into her typewriter and sends the resulting ejaculate to her publishers as finished work.
You might get the impression that I really like the story to go somewhere.
My solution: I read the first "chapter" of a story, skimming much of it to see if the "chapter" really tells enough of its own story to catch my interest. If so, I'll read the chapter more carefully and look for the second chapter; if not, I ignore the rest.
However, it's an imperfect solution born out of the desire to read some of this. I don't want people to stop submitting stories, by any means, but really would like authors to realize that a multi-part story is a liability. If you really want to tell a longer story, consider writing one segment of it and posting it, and make sure that the segment you post is self-contained and well-written. Then, if you really think that adding the rest before and after it will augment the strength of the story, have at it.
But remember: it is not a sin to tell a fragment of a story, while not finishing it ever. If the story's good enough, it'll have some good substories to tell.
Like that little fragment of a bigger story, that George Lucas released as a movie in 1977. Self-contained, although it had hints/hooks of tying it to a bigger story. (We could argue as to whether the additional material added since 1977 really makes it a stronger or a weaker story.)
Rule of thumb: if the chapter you're getting ready to post is to provide atmosphere, but has no plot or movement, either you should see if you're channeling Hemmingway (good, mostly) or Rice (terrible, always).
[You might get the impression that I don't respect Anne Rice as a writer. If she were a writer, then you're right, I wouldn't respect her as one. However, since she's not a writer....
]
Re: Multiple Parts
Jab wrote "
As "The Person", I thought that I'd respond to Jab's own offensive and prejudiced criticism.
Jab is of course right to have his opinion and his tastes but really should not try to impose them so nastily on others, as he seems to be trying to do. I know, from much personal feedback, that many people like the longer tales, although readership figures show that the majority do prefer one-offs. Both preferences should be catered for by this board & I, for one, oblige.
What would the state of literature be like today if the views of people like Jab, seemingly intolerant of the perspectives of others, prevailed?
He should bear in mind that many like Anne Rice as an author and that 'The Lycian Prince' maintained a respectably large following at eunuch.org throughout its 69 chapters! People should have the freedom to choose to read such works if they want!
His narrow-minded rant will not stop me from continuing to produce the longer narratives and I hope that it will not prevent others!
PUEROS
"jab (imported) wrote: Sun May 12, 2002 9:14 pm The person who wrote that pointing this out and calling it "rude" was offensive, well, should look at the stories that continue to part 30 or part 60. It's like reading a story written by Anne Rice, who masturbates regularly into her typewriter and sends the resulting ejaculate to her publishers as finished work.
As "The Person", I thought that I'd respond to Jab's own offensive and prejudiced criticism.
Jab is of course right to have his opinion and his tastes but really should not try to impose them so nastily on others, as he seems to be trying to do. I know, from much personal feedback, that many people like the longer tales, although readership figures show that the majority do prefer one-offs. Both preferences should be catered for by this board & I, for one, oblige.
What would the state of literature be like today if the views of people like Jab, seemingly intolerant of the perspectives of others, prevailed?
He should bear in mind that many like Anne Rice as an author and that 'The Lycian Prince' maintained a respectably large following at eunuch.org throughout its 69 chapters! People should have the freedom to choose to read such works if they want!
His narrow-minded rant will not stop me from continuing to produce the longer narratives and I hope that it will not prevent others!
PUEROS
-
Erik (imported)
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2002 2:55 pm
-
Posting Rank
Re: Multiple Parts
As a author of stories, I know how hard it is to write a story, let alone a good story.
I find it total bull shit that people are complaining about multi part stories. I trully believe you people should be thankful that people like Pueros, Nathan, and myself write stories and post them for other people to read.
I myself do not like to read a chapter of a story and then wait to see if the author will write more, so I wait until the story is fully written and posted in full, before I download all the parts and read it.
If you do not like multi part stories, then stop reading them. Just like a TV. If you don't like what you are watching change the fucking channle. If you dont like what your fucking reading, then stop reading it and move on to another story.
I find it total bull shit that people are complaining about multi part stories. I trully believe you people should be thankful that people like Pueros, Nathan, and myself write stories and post them for other people to read.
I myself do not like to read a chapter of a story and then wait to see if the author will write more, so I wait until the story is fully written and posted in full, before I download all the parts and read it.
If you do not like multi part stories, then stop reading them. Just like a TV. If you don't like what you are watching change the fucking channle. If you dont like what your fucking reading, then stop reading it and move on to another story.
-
jab (imported)
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2002 3:26 pm
-
Posting Rank
Re: Multiple Parts
"
A publisher can impose an opinion. Everyone else has to settle for simply stating one.
Now, go back and read my post again. Actually read it, this time. You'll find that I say, fairly clearly, that you can write whatever the fuck you want.
"pueros wrote: Mon May 13, 2002 1:42 am Jab is of course right to have his opinion and his tastes but really should not try to impose them so nastily on others...
A publisher can impose an opinion. Everyone else has to settle for simply stating one.
Now, go back and read my post again. Actually read it, this time. You'll find that I say, fairly clearly, that you can write whatever the fuck you want.
-
androboy (imported)
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2001 4:52 pm
-
Posting Rank
Re: Multiple Parts
jab (imported) wrote: Sun May 12, 2002 9:14 pm I understand that it's tough to write something that establishes a place, time, characters, and atmosphere, and then to continue by including an actual story line and wrap it up within one posting.
But...
Much of what's posted in chapters is NOT really a story told in chapters, but a poorly told story told a short bit at a time. Imagine reading a story, that could be written as a large-print 25-page book for a beginning reader, but in this format:
Chapter 1: Intro to Timmy
Chapter 2: Timmy wakes up
Chapter 3: Timmy turns off the alarm clock
Chapter 4: Timmy falls back asleep
Chapter 5: Description of the wallpaper in Timmy's bedroom
Chapter 6: Timmy's dog hops on the bed and wakes him...
...
Chapter 102: Timmy has to decide between having oatmeal or eggs for breakfast
...
Chapter 921: Timmy leaves for school
...
Chapter 2012: Timmy falls asleep, and the day ends
Now, describing it this way is <B>fairly impolite</B>, but many of the stories feel that way.
Not all. But a lot.
The person who wrote that pointing this out and calling it "rude" was offensive, well, should look at the stories that continue to part 30 or part 60. It's like reading a story written by Anne Rice, who masturbates regularly into her typewriter and sends the resulting ejaculate to her publishers as finished work.
You might get the impression that I really like the story to go somewhere.
My solution: I read the first "chapter" of a story, skimming much of it to see if the "chapter" really tells enough of its own story to catch my interest. If so, I'll read the chapter more carefully and look for the second chapter; if not, I ignore the rest.
However, it's an imperfect solution born out of the desire to read some of this. I don't want people to stop submitting stories, by any means, but really would like authors to realize that a multi-part story is a liability. If you really want to tell a longer story, consider writing one segment of it and posting it, and make sure that the segment you post is self-contained and well-written. Then, if you really think that adding the rest before and after it will augment the strength of the story, have at it.
But remember: it is not a sin to tell a fragment of a story, while not finishing it ever. If the story's good enough, it'll have some good substories to tell.
Like that little fragment of a bigger story, that George Lucas released as a movie in 1977. Self-contained, although it had hints/hooks of tying it to a bigger story. (We could argue as to whether the additional material added since 1977 really makes it a stronger or a weaker story.)
Rule of thumb: if the chapter you're getting ready to post is to provide atmosphere, but has no plot or movement, either you should see if you're channeling Hemmingway (good, mostly) or Rice (terrible, always).
[You might get the impression that I don't respect Anne Rice as a writer. If she were a writer, then you're right, I wouldn't respect her as one. However, since she's not a writer....
regardless of what you think of anne rice -- the fact remains that she IS a writer. you personally might not like her or her writing, but that still doesn't change the fact that she is a writer and a best-selling one at that.
besides being fairly impolite in the way you described multi-cahpter stories, you were very over-simplistic. the truth is that most of the multi-part stories involve very good writing. as i've pointed out before, the writers who give of themselves on the ea are not professionals getting paid for what they do -- they are very good and some are professional quality writers who freely share their talents.
can some writers use help? sure -- that goes without saying. and there are ways to offer constructive criticism and suggestions to help those weak writers. that would benefit everyone reading the ea -- the writers and readers both.
that's really the one thing that bothers me about this type of thread -- those complaining haven't offered positive examples in the archives for other aspiring writers to check out and the general lack of constructive criticism. and most of the critics haven't tried their hand at posting to see if their efforts are all that much better. it's easy to criticize, but a little harder to actually do.
most of the writers get very little public (on the ea boards) for their contributions and frankly, they should be getting far more. what is it about the one part and multi-part stories that people like -- which authors seem to have found the successful formula that meets the desires of the writers? give something positive back and who knows what might happen -- we might see some vastly improved stories.
just something to think about
david
Re: Multiple Parts
Jab writes "
I can assure Jab that I read his post thoroughly, several times, before sending my retort in amazement at his selfish illiberal sanctimonious message.
I suggest that, by posting such views, he is seeking to change the policy of the 'publisher', thereby denying the right of certain writers to be published and read, simply because their narratives do not match his views or tastes. Alternatively or additionally, he's trying to discourage the composition of longer works submitted in chapter format, thereby stifling creativity, something that I consider unforgivable.
I also suggest that an archive run by Jab as moderator, or should I say censor, would be a far less interesting and cosmopolitan place!
PUEROS
"jab (imported) wrote: Mon May 13, 2002 7:09 pm A publisher can impose an opinion. Everyone else has to settle for simply stating one.
I can assure Jab that I read his post thoroughly, several times, before sending my retort in amazement at his selfish illiberal sanctimonious message.
I suggest that, by posting such views, he is seeking to change the policy of the 'publisher', thereby denying the right of certain writers to be published and read, simply because their narratives do not match his views or tastes. Alternatively or additionally, he's trying to discourage the composition of longer works submitted in chapter format, thereby stifling creativity, something that I consider unforgivable.
I also suggest that an archive run by Jab as moderator, or should I say censor, would be a far less interesting and cosmopolitan place!
PUEROS
-
A-1 (imported)
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 5593
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2001 4:44 pm
-
Posting Rank
Re: Multiple Parts
...Pueros and Androboy.
After all, opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one. Some work better than others, but in the end it is the paperwork that counts.
Besides that, genius is almost never appreciated in its own time.
Let ole jab rant and rave. It is probably the only time that he ever uses a keyboard...
A-1
After all, opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one. Some work better than others, but in the end it is the paperwork that counts.
Besides that, genius is almost never appreciated in its own time.
Let ole jab rant and rave. It is probably the only time that he ever uses a keyboard...
A-1 Re: Multiple Parts
Sanctimonious?
Now there's word I just have to sit here and say aloud.
Illiberal ... Illiterate ... sounds good together. I wont' push THAT one any further!
I think david says it well, as does pueros. Lack of feedback is discouraging, yes, and I wish I had time to send a personal comment to everyone who posts, but I don't.
And of course, jab can just not read the serials if he wishes, or whatever.
Read and write whatever the fuck turns you on ... if you dont' like it, click BACK when you're reading it and try it again! If I don't like it when it gets here, I'll just dispose of it unless it's on-topic and not too badly mangled.
We're having a data-salad problem of late, so be careful. No one likes to read crazy code. Poor david, this happened to him the other night. I thought he'd been PIF'd or something.
Use lots of these, too. !!!!!!!!!!!
Yea, and in case ya didn't notice, I'm lit. :p
I've been driven to drink beer, belch odiferously, smoke and almost (almost, mind you!) chase some handsome young fella around ... he's 9 hours away though, dammit.
Now there's word I just have to sit here and say aloud.
Illiberal ... Illiterate ... sounds good together. I wont' push THAT one any further!
I think david says it well, as does pueros. Lack of feedback is discouraging, yes, and I wish I had time to send a personal comment to everyone who posts, but I don't.
And of course, jab can just not read the serials if he wishes, or whatever.
Read and write whatever the fuck turns you on ... if you dont' like it, click BACK when you're reading it and try it again! If I don't like it when it gets here, I'll just dispose of it unless it's on-topic and not too badly mangled.
We're having a data-salad problem of late, so be careful. No one likes to read crazy code. Poor david, this happened to him the other night. I thought he'd been PIF'd or something.
Use lots of these, too. !!!!!!!!!!!
Yea, and in case ya didn't notice, I'm lit. :p
I've been driven to drink beer, belch odiferously, smoke and almost (almost, mind you!) chase some handsome young fella around ... he's 9 hours away though, dammit.
