Where are all the smooth crotched ladyboys?

[jemagirl (imported)]

So far as i know, I have never met anyone who identifies as a ladyboy. So no need to use that word.

[transward (imported)]

So far as i know, I have never met anyone who identifies as a ladyboy. So no need to use that word.

I however have known several trans women who were proud to claim the label. True they were unashamedly involved in the sex trade. There is a tendency among a lot of trans women to feel that "We are good girls; we don't have anything to do with trans people in the sex business. They are just gay men, or transvestites or something but they aren't any thing like us." This I think dishonors our foremothers who for the last several thousand years the only place society would allow us to live as ourselves and support ourselves was by prostitution, which before the discovery of antibiotics was a prescription for a short unhealthy life. It took a lot more courage to be trans before the last 30 or 40 years.

Transward

[transward (imported)]

A trans escort friend of mine when asked about her motives for doing what she does referred me to Annie Sprinkle's web site: http://www.anniesprinkle.org/html/writi ... eroes.html If you haven't encountered Anne Sprinkle she is worth checking out.

Transward

[jockey_elance (imported)]

I think maybe some trans-ladies probably chose to have new parts surgically because it will make them feel more like a woman. Other probably feel that they are fine just as themselves, what is inside counts. So having no genitals might be cheaper surgery, but it would really be loosing on both accounts. It wouldn't make the woman feel more like she was the way she is suppost to, and it would be just selling out instead of being true to herself. If someone chooses to have the surgery to switch genders, that is okay, if that is what they want. However if a trans-lady chooses to keep her male parts, that is beautiful and should be respected. I know if I had the opportunity to be with one of these special ladies I would prefer to be the one without any balls.

[punkypink (imported)]

Old Greebo: It isn't simplistic to say that gender comes from the mind and brain because in 1998, a CAT scan showed that a MtF trans woman had the physical brain structure of a female even though the subject was still physically male and had not undergone female hormones. Further scans on trans women who have not started on female hormones have obtained similiar results. The scientists feel that, over 10 years after the orginal scan, there is enough evidence to say that it is very likely that the reason trans people are trans, is because they literally have a female brain in a male body or vice versa. Btw, chromosomes decide your physical sex, not your gender. Physical sex and gender are 2 different things.

Dev: I still would not use ladyboy to describe intersexed people.

Transward: I have no problem with trans women involved in the sex trade. I just wish however, that they would not specifically prostitute themselves based on being "trans". The problem is that that while there are people who are well informed and would not end up with a mistaken notion that trans women are sexual deviants whose sole purpose in life is to be f**ked by men, to majority of the average joe in society, who are willing to form beliefs and notions by accepting what they're told the most at face value, they WILL end up forming the idea that we're some sort of sub-human species good only for sexual usage. it means that the way trans people are seen are affected at a societal level.

I've met guys say to me that I should be more willing to put out, who insulted me because I'm not into guys, accusing me of "acting hi class" saying that people like me "are good for nothing except as f**ktoys for me", generally saying that trans people don't deserve to have standards for being trans. No doubt a misconception on trans people which would NOT have been helped, and probably caused by those who sell themselves as "special" women. People might like to say otherwise, but let's face it, despite that "40 reasons why whores are my heros" piece by annie sprinke, it has to be taken as an attempt at humor really, as whoring oneself out is a very selfish act that doesn't care about what sort of prejudices it brings on the rest of the community. People have the right to be selfish of course, so fair play to them, but I think the rest of us are being naive when we pretend that it doesn't affect how the public sees the rest of us as well.

The whole point as with the use of the term "ladyboy", is that while there are people who are well informed and would not mistake that gender comes from genitals, once again, to majority of the average joe in society, who are willing to form beliefs and notions by accepting what they're told the most at face value, the use of the word simply helps build and reinforce the notion that gender is due to genitals.

Most of us here are lucky to be in a slightly more perspective position, which is why some of you might wonder about the fuss over the use of the word. But the problem here is not about whether the word is actually offensive or not. It is what sublime effect the use of the word has on the rest of the real world that are willing to form prejudices, who aren't willing to think as deep, who are willing to accept what they're told at face value. The truth of the matter is, words like "ladyboy" "katoey" ALL encourage the general public to continue believing the misconception that gender is decided by genitals when it isn't.

[helsinki (imported)]

A person who identifies as a woman ought to be labelled as a woman, regardless of whether she is cis- or trans- or whether she has altered her body. It is cruel to call her a ladyboy, because the term refers to bodily characteristics that she did not choose to have, and which are usually distressing to her. The term ladyboy implies that she is a type of boy in the same way that a toothbrush is a type of brush.

What about people such as myself whose identities do not fit into exactly one of the two genders of the binary system? I use the word "androgyne" to describe myself rather than words such as "shemale" or "ladyboy". The reason is that even though the terms may be similar in meaning, I feel uncomfortable with some of the connotations associated with the last two terms. For these last two, the first hundred hits on google all relate to pornography, but for the word "androgyne", the first hundred google hits are all respectable. I hope that in the future, the word "androgyne" does not develop unpleasant connotations, or I will have to relabel myself!

End of rant.

[FianceeUvBigGuy (imported)]

Yoli: Woman/girl would be nice thanks. But more to the point, it isn't about you. You might not mean the term in a degrogatory way but for every one of you who doesn't use it like that, there are 10 "normal" people who will hear or read it and subconsciously be reinforced that gender depends on the genitals instead of the brain. Would be nice if you could actually consider the longer term social effects of using that term and refrain from it even IF Treasure herself uses the term and isn't offended by it. In fact, maybe point out to her how the use of the term by ANYONE harms the community as a whole by reinforcing the conventional stereotypes that "normal" people have about gender and about transpeople.

Punkles,

The factoid to consider is that Treasure prefers the term "Ladyboy" since, to her mind at least, it accurately conveys her as what she is; A boy in that she has a penis, however itty-bitty, and loves sex with females; A lady in appearance (other than the missing bits.) and manner who also thrives on sex with men.

I note that the term is applied mostly, almost exclusively, to Asians, mostly Thais, rather than to persons of other races; Caucasian, Black, Rat, etc., though the honorable Japanese prefer "Newhalf" for reasons known not to me.

I also note that the Japanese newhalfs feature a higher, seemingly much so, percentage of their group that have been castrated. Treasure, perhaps in a dark competitive spirit v. the semi-daughters of the Emperor, avers that most of the castrated NHs had no choice in the matter, being forced to undergo castration by the organized crime group, the "Yakuza" (sp?), which controls all drug trade, porn, etc, in Nippon.

That rasies a ?...Do you consider the term "Newhalf" (which sounds goofy to me,) a derogatory term as well?

Yoli

Confused, so maybe I'd better go shopping...That always helps.

[punkypink (imported)]

Punkles,

The factoid to consider is that Treasure prefers the term "Ladyboy" since, to her mind at least, it accurately conveys her as what she is; A boy in that she has a penis, however itty-bitty, and loves sex with females; A lady in appearance (other than the missing bits.) and manner who also thrives on sex with men.

I note that the term is applied mostly, almost exclusively, to Asians, mostly Thais, rather than to persons of other races; Caucasian, Black, Rat, etc., though the honorable Japanese prefer "Newhalf" for reasons known not to me.

I also note that the Japanese newhalfs feature a higher, seemingly much so, percentage of their group that have been castrated. Treasure, perhaps in a dark competitive spirit v. the semi-daughters of the Emperor, avers that most of the castrated NHs had no choice in the matter, being forced to undergo castration by the organized crime group, the "Yakuza" (sp?), which controls all drug trade, porn, etc, in Nippon.

That rasies a ?...Do you consider the term "Newhalf" (which sounds goofy to me,) a derogatory term as well?

Yoli

Confused, so maybe I'd better go shopping...That always helps.

Yes, because their usage promotes exclusivity and non-recognition of the gender identity of majority of trans people. Why do trans men and trans women need to be considered something else? What is wrong with just letting them be men and women, and the minority who identify as neither be neither?

Please do not think that just because I'm opposed to offensive terms, that I'm ashamed to be trans. I'm not. I am trans, and that is fact. However, I am not A trans. There is a difference in saying I am trans, and I am A trans. Being trans is just a small aspect of me, akin to having black hair, or being chinese. You would not say I am A chinese. 1st of all, it is bad english. You would say I am chinese, or I am a chinese person/woman. 2ndly, being chinese is not the only definitive thing about me, just as being trans is not the only definitive thing about me. Trans can be used in the similiar manner as chinese , to describe one aspect of a person. Ladyboy/newhalf etc, cannot. That is one reason why it is insulting. The fact that they were also borne out of ignorance does not help.

To Treasure's mind, a ladyboy is what she is. Yet, how she views the term is precisely what I've been arguing against:

the association of gender with genitals and

orientation:

A boy in that she has a penis

I have a penis, does that make me a boy? No.

A boy in that she ................ loves sex with females

I prefer sex with females, does that make me a boy?

No.

A lady in appearance (other than the missing bits.)

Am I a woman because I look like one? No, it is

because I am female identified.

A lady

in ............. manner who also thrives on sex with men

Am I a woman because I thrive on sex with men? No, I don't fancy men at all, but it doesn't make me not a woman.

For all the ways she is using the term, Treasure, bless her, is encouraging and reinforcing all the wrong perceptions about gender, physical sex, orientation.

So thanks for telling me just why Treasure prefers the term. I think there couldn't have been a better illustration of why the term is offensive and the ignorance behind the use, acceptance or preference of such a term.

Regardless, the even bigger picture here is WHY the term shouldn't be used, and that is due not to what WE feel about it, but what the rest of the ignorant general public who're untroubled by gender-identity matters, would be influenced to believe when such terms are used and accepted.

[maybelater (imported)]

Maybe sometime we can get back to Kellyslarkin's original question.

For now I think it is impossible to find any name that would make everyone comfortable. Context and personal preference are too subjective and variable to be able to settle on one name for anything. Maybe just some purely descriptive words or phrase would be ok (it would not be very concise, or easy to speak, or poetically evocative). But it would probably not offend anyone. How does smooth-crotched-men-with-boobs sound ?

(Is that what Kellyslarkin would like ?)

This semantic "argument" can never be resolved so please get back to the original question.

[bobbie (imported)]

Maybe sometime we can get back to Kellyslarkin's original question.

Judging by the relative prominence of Thai SRS surgeons, even the abundant community of adult websites related to mostly pre-op but also some post-op Katoey, one would expect to find at least some who either choose to have no vagina, or don't have sufficient material (or money) to create one and opt simply for penectomy / nullification instead.

Yet it is incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to find any images of smooth, bare crotched Katoey, who simply have no genitals at all. If they exist, as the presence of Classy Bitch suggests, and the procedure is actually listed on their websites, and there are desirable reasons for it, both cosmetically, practically, and monetarily, one would expect to find someone who has had it done. I agree that the artificial vagina does tend to look a bit unseemly, and prefer the look of a completely smooth, genital-free crotch.

One can find nullified men, and if one looks a little harder, nullified women, but what I'd really like to see is what a nullified T-girl looks like. They must exist, right? Where are they? Surely, some Hijra must also be like this, but I think the crudeness of the operation would leave an unseemly scar, and it's also difficult to find images of that (despite their apparent public display).

Any ideas?

If I understand the question right. He wants to see photo's of a transgendered MTF. With just the male organs removed and the skin closed to form just smooth perineum. I assume he would want the prostrate removed. I assume he would have a urthra opening somewhere in the perineum.

The photo's can be found on the internet. Just have to do some searching. Would be in some porn site. Would think some Transgendered site. The chance of another member in here with the same desires I would think would be very low.