Where are all the smooth crotched ladyboys?

[spankey2 (imported)]

duplicate post. Takes an administrator to remove.

[spankey2 (imported)]

Yet another duplicate....

[Richard_Less (imported)]

Removed unacceptable word

I understand why that particular word was censored from my post, but it goes to further my point about taking things in context.

I just find it frustrating how so many other vulgar words, some of which have no other meaning but something vulgar, are used in this and other forums but remain uncensored.

Oh well - I'll let this thread go back to topic. I too would also be interested in hearing the reasons why some transsexuals (Thai, Canadian, Male, Female, whatever) would forgo any genitalia what so ever - aesthetics, money, a strong personal repulsion to sex, etc.

[Paolo]

If it's the movie I'm thinking about, the word is "Niggaz", a urban/slang expression shared between those of African descent in a particular genre of their culture. Tupac Shakur made an album coining the term "...For My Niggaz" and it sold millions as a smash hit. The term is still used in certain cliques today, and not technically considered "unacceptable", especially when put in quotes.

To everyone else concerned - grow up before heads start flying.

[kellyslarkin (imported)]

Nice mouth full of bullshit to justify derogatory language that exemplifies discrimination

'Triangle' is a discriminatory word. It discriminates between a triangle and a square. What's important about that is not the discrimination (of which the actual definition itself is the discerning of differences, real or perceived), it's the context in which that word is used.

'Jew' is a disciminatory word.

'My friend is a Jew' is a positive statement about my views and categorization of Jewish people if my friend is a Jew.

'My friend is a Jew' is a negative statement about my views and categorization of Jewish people if my friend is not a Jew.

Do you see the importance of context?

Now I haven't addressed the aspect of being derogatory because derogatory implies having some understanding of a cultural context implicit in a word.

And as I stated, I have no idea whether 'ladyboy' or 'katoey' are offensive or derogatory because I have very little understand of Thai culture, but one of those words is actually an English compound which sounds attractive to me. So if one of those words is derogatory, please point that out, but let's not pretend that discrimination is bad. It's not, /without context/. It's merely categorization.

Now people are more complex objects and don't like to be judged in absolute terms or placed in absolute categories, so we have to use fuzzy logic here, but there are absolute distinctions that are preserved even in this fuzzy logic.

I am not of Thai descent is an absolute.

I am not a Ladyboy is an approximate.

[Paolo]

And as I stated, I have no idea whether 'ladyboy' or 'katoey' are offensive or derogatory because I have very little understand of Thai culture...

Bingo.

Also hence the removal by a Mod of the "unacceptable word". Not all of us are familiar with the culture that spawned it.

And THAT part of this discussion is over.

[kellyslarkin (imported)]

So back to the point, where are they?

If I were a MtF trans-{suffix of choice} having bottom surgery, I would not wish to have a neo-vagina, I would prefer not to have any genitals at all, regardless of my sexual preference, there are passive activities available that I would much prefer. Add to that the difficulty of dealing with a stint and dilation, risk of prolapse and just general cosmetic and depth issues, and I don't understand why it isn't more common. I would definitely get top surgery and have it done in such a way so as to keep sensation. I'm undecided whether I would want to keep genital sensation. I'm also undecided what set of hormones I would wish to maintain afterwards. I'm not undecided on whether I am a MtF trans-{any suffix}.

I'm simply peculiarly attracted to and interested in the subject. It may be the fuel for my next story (which tend to be [F] bent up to now).

Now that is a bag of very strange, which is after all, why I'm here in the first place. Since this operation seems to be available, and people claim to have had it done, I'd like to know if that's true and has a potentially positive outcome. The only documented case I've ever seen is Michael in 'American Eunuch', which was a sad and depressing case (and a pitiful excuse for a documentary, I might add, let's not open that box in this thread). I'm sure there must be a positive example, but I can't find substantiated proof of such, which is the question.

Sure, our own Classy Bitch has opened the door to this as a positive choice, but that isn't exactly substantiated proof. I can however attest to one part of Classy Bitch's assertion, the positive existence of 'nipple-gasms' in the absence of genital stimulation.

Hopefully I haven't ignited some kind of flame-thingy.

And Punkypink, I've always loved your avatar, so cute, so I hope you take it seriously when I say I mean no disrespect.

And hopefully I haven't ignited some kind of flame-thingy with that either.

[Old Greebo (imported)]

When I saw the title of this thread, I thought it was going to be a discussion concerning the possible (probable?) existence of 'transgendered' persons who elected to have their genitalia modified so as not to resemble either sex.

Turns out it's been a rant about names, and whether those names are, or might be, offensive.

Dear Kellyslarkin, I'm so glad you came back with your message #17 to remind everyone about what you were actually asking. I do believe you raised an interesting point, and I'd like to see if anyone can come up with useful responses to your questions.

Sex is a minefield, isn't it? In all its manifestations. So easy to give offence ...

[cdejours (imported)]

Not only what you want exists, but it’s done in India and Thailand.

Some of us and some transsexuals want to have a female lower abdomen but do not want to have a fully functional vulva like a woman.

In this case the penis and testicles are completely removed and a portion of the scrotum is used to create the outer labia.

The outer labia give a female look and between the outer labia the new urinary opening is placed to urinate sitting or crouching like a woman. There isn’t no clitoris, no inner labia and no vaginal canal.

In summary it is a complete emasculation with outer labia.

The labia majora are particularly advised to avoid urinary tract infections and irritations of the new urinary opening caused by the friction of underwears or tight clothings. In addition to the labia majora provide a lower abdomen of female aspect sought by some of us.

It is a simpler surgery than SRS because like there isn’t a vaginal canal it is less invasive. In addition the post operative cares are simpler because there aren’t dilatations to be done.

This operation is increasingly requested by MTF transsexuals who do not want to have sex through the vagina and some men who want a lower abdomen with a female look.

Personally it is the surgery that I am looking for me (see my avatar) and I am in contact with some Indian and Thai surgeons. I plan to be operated in early 2010.

[punkypink (imported)]

I am partially Thai. And I am a transgirl.

Just to clear up some of the previous discussions:

Let me just say, saying Ladyboy is a descriptive, is like me going around calling people with braces "Jaws" or people with big noses "Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer". Descriptive, yes. Insulting? Quite so too. Afterall why am I, and why should I be judged by my physical body when who I am inside is a hell lot more important?

Don't think the Thais are non-discriminatory to transpeople. 1st off, Thailand's predominant religion and culture is Buddhism. People are not aggressively discriminatory in Thailand because they believe us transpeople are trans as a result of bad karma from a past life. As a result, they're not transphobic "ZOMG STONE TRANSSEXUALS!!11!" about it, BUT they don't see us as capable equals either. They see us as something to be pitied, and not on par with "normal" humans.

2ndly, in Thailand, EVEN post-ops are not considered women. They will forever be EXCLUDED as women in the eyes of Thai law. If that is not discrimination (passive thought it may be) I don't know what is.

Personally I hate the term ladyboy because it just seems like whoever's using it is describing me by a physical attribute that I didn't choose to have or particularly like, and making me feel like who I am inside, my personality, intelligence, abilities, skills, wisdom are all completely not worth anything.

Maybe some trans people who fetishise their own transsexualism like those terms, but I'm every bit a normal human being as most of you here are, and certainly do NOT find terms like ladyboy or katoey undiscriminating or unoffensive.

To add, I don't always kick up a big fuss everytime people use the term. Sometimes I just take the insult quietly, For example, there is another thread here by Hash, with the very word in the title. Yoli also regularly uses the degradory terms. Sigh, it isn't pleasant of course, to see people whom you think are quite enlightened to use those terms, however, they seem to have some fetishistic interest in transwomen, and besides we all know Yoli is incorrigible, even though I would love them to be a bit more considerate when using such terms as well. Still I can't police everyone, I can only try my best to inform and educate and hope more people than not could understand, or try to, and maybe this world could be a bit better for people like me.

Actually if its a descriptive term you want to describe us transwomen, how about these: "brave" "determined" "progressive" "intelligent"? They certainly do us a lot more justice than some stupid term based on the superficial.

Now back on topic: Being smooth crotched is pretty much what I plan for myself in future, but its going to happen only by my timeframe, not to conform to some outdated and superficial societal prejudice of the notion of "womanhood".